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Old 04-03-2013, 03:54 PM   #46
scottrnelson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Never had a bike do this before. Ever. Between 30 and 50 mph, let go of the bars, the grips start to dance without me - front end shimmy that does not go away but gets worse the longer I leave the bars unattended. Granted, this is usually not something you'd do for long amounts of time, but it is very worrysome to me, no bike has ever done this before. This one only has a couple hundred miles on it. Hands on the grips damps it out, for now, but I am not a trusting soul when it comes to things like this. Back to the dealer for sure, but any ideas on what might be going on? Thanks! steve
I haven't read all of the responses yet, but my 2008 990 Adv does that too. I originally thought it was from the stock Pirelli front tire that was a bit worn. I don't think it did it when I put new Continental Trail Attack tires on it, but now that they're worn a bit I get the same behavior.

It looks to me like the only solutions are add a steering damper or don't take both hands off of the bars.

Now I'll go back and read all of the responses and probably either see a simple solution, or that 15 other people have said the same thing I just said.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:28 PM   #47
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Okay, after reading everything, this looks like it may go the way of the Tune ECU 990 thread or the windscreen buffeting thread where we eventually end up with thousands of responses and no complete solution.

The sag has been set properly on my bike and doesn't fix the problem. I can't believe that having the sag a little off would cause this issue, though. If that were the case, you should be able to slide forward or back a few inches and get more or less front end shake. (I may have to try that.)

Continental Trail Attack tires are better, especially when new, but my own experience is that they won't make the issue go away completely once you've put a few miles on them. I've seen the issue with my Trail Attacks.

I'm just living with the need to keep at least one hand on the bars, and I'll pull over and stop if I need to adjust a glove or something that can't be done with one hand damping the front end oscillations.


And little by little I'm being pushed in the direction of trading this KTM for a Multistrada 1200. I use my Honda for most dirt riding anyway.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:46 PM   #48
laramie LC4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eebrumfi View Post
Great News,

My dealer just called and is replacing both tires with Conti Trail Attacks at no charge!!

Woo Hoo!!
sweet!
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:11 PM   #49
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I "fought" this problem for the 1st year I had my 08. For me...I repeat...for me, it was a function of luggage, rear shock adjustment and tire pressure. Someone said in an earlier post something about "the front end being light" and I agree. My issue was that I'd load up a week long camping trip and then single track most of the time I was out. If I loaded back up with slightly low tire pressure (just a few pounds made a difference) I'd get the wobbs. Try playing with your tire pressure and rear shock setting. When things are good, I can shift my weight towards the rear and the wobbs return. That being said, now that I have it dialed in, all is good. A recent weekend of "fast" gravel with the front end dancing around but the bike feeling solid as a rock had me falling in love all over again with this beast.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:38 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eebrumfi View Post
I think I found your wiggle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJeUhHikQAQ
Headshake completely fixed with new set of conti trail attacks.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:35 PM   #51
scottrnelson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eebrumfi View Post
Headshake completely fixed with new set of conti trail attacks.
But how long will it last?

The headshake was gone from mine when the Trail Attacks were new, but now that they're worn a bit, it's back.

I hope it's a permanent fix for yours.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:49 PM   #52
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Conti Tires

I have the Conti on my bike as well and had the same headshake issue.

I put 5oz of the RideOn in the front since I was on the road and getting the tire rebalanced was not an option.

It actually got rid of the head shake.

I think as the tire wears the point of balance changes and the rideon is able to compensate for that and keep it in balance.

Now my case is made worse by the fact when the tires were mounted they failed to balance it in the first place and I did not notice until after the wheel were mounted back on the bike at the house and I was leaving for my trip.

Just my .02 but worth trying to see if it make any difference in your case. Something to note it takes a few minutes of riding for the stuff to disperse in the tube so the front end feels weird the first 5 minutes of riding after it has sat for a while. Just expect it and dont be surprised.
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Old 04-24-2013, 06:36 PM   #53
BuilderScott
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I went from TKC's to Scorpions on an F800GS a couple years ago prepping for a longish road trip and had the same head shake as in the video immediately.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:38 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laramie lc4 View Post
first, all you should ever need is a light grip on the bars, any more and your wasting energy.

I have 5 bikes in my garage and the only one i can't let go of the bars on is my 990. The other bikes are all dirt bikes, without balanced tires, and i literally can stand up, let go of the bars, and coast down a hill doing a "christ the redeemer" pose and track as straight as an arrow. My 990 scares the shit out of me within 1/2 a sec of releasing my grip.

I took my 990 in because of this head shake issue and got the same "look" from the mech when i said, "let go of the bars." that worries me because there is absolutely no reason that a bike should not track straight unless something is out of balance. In fact, the centrifugal force acting upon the tires wants them to roll straight. It takes something bad to change that. I have seen video of a guy riding a 1800 goldwing hands free, he hits the bar with his hand to try and cause it to lose control. It wiggles for a sec, then straightens back out. All without any hands on the bars.

I have eliminated all other possible causes on my bike besides the tire. It is balanced, i have changed the suspension settings, i have tightened the steering head, checked the rear pre-load on the shock, everything. The only thing left is the tire.

Currently i have a new tire being warrantied by ktm for my bike. Should be here by tuesday...

Just my $.02,

laramie

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Old 04-24-2013, 09:12 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSM8 View Post
I have the Conti on my bike as well and had the same headshake issue.

I put 5oz of the RideOn in the front since I was on the road and getting the tire rebalanced was not an option.

It actually got rid of the head shake.

I think as the tire wears the point of balance changes and the rideon is able to compensate for that and keep it in balance.

Now my case is made worse by the fact when the tires were mounted they failed to balance it in the first place and I did not notice until after the wheel were mounted back on the bike at the house and I was leaving for my trip.

Just my .02 but worth trying to see if it make any difference in your case. Something to note it takes a few minutes of riding for the stuff to disperse in the tube so the front end feels weird the first 5 minutes of riding after it has sat for a while. Just expect it and dont be surprised.
+1

Dunno if scorps are crap or not, but the lightness of the front end might be needing a super accurate balancing all the time...

Ride on is dynamic balance so it shifts with wear to compensate... But a little drop in pressure instantly gets reflected in a little wobble back..

So for Ride on to work properly and be dynamically spread a full pressure is also a must... I recheck this daily and a drop of 5 lbs is automatically felt in wobble back although very light
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:21 AM   #56
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After reading this thread i found out that i get the headshake too even though i got some really new (500 klm) scorpions on.
With some further testing it seems i only get it with a full tank, as soon as the tanks get below half It becomes barely noticeable even when trying to recreate it.
Don't really know what to make out of it but i will try tightening up the suspension settings a bit and play around with the tires psi and see what happens.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:21 AM   #57
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While riding the bike, stand up and look at the front tire. You'd swear the wheel was not true but it's the tire! Must be some bad casting going on at Pirelli on these Scorpions. Pretty pitiful.
actually.
I noticed the shake within 2 miles after leaving the guy's house that bought it from. I thought "this bike's been wrecked. I just got screwed"!! After checking things out, I figured:
1) Not been wrecked
2) Wheel was true
3) Balance could be off
4) HOLY SHIT, look at that tire while it's spinning!!! The tire itself is not true.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:21 AM   #58
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The fix in order of what seems to work the most often on bikes that roll through here.

Rear sag, typically the bikes are over loaded on the rear and need more spring, especially if the rider fits the typical ADV bodytype. More preload fixes this sometimes. New spring is best if the problem is exacerbated. S models come with a softer spring so I see this being the wiggle cause more often on these.

Fork height, Raise the forks in the trees to shorten trail will help especially if you are running road tires, i.e. Scorpions. Also, If you are running a set of aftermarket triple trees that change offset, you will likely experience a bit more wobble on pavement...though they are far more awesome for kicking out the rear on dirt! Similarly, soft fork springs, that these things are known for, tend to slop down in the front increasing trail. Everybody has revalved and resprung their front end, right? Its a frigging necessity afaik.

Front Tire Pressure. A lot of guys come to this bike from other road bikes with wide low profile street tires... This is not that sort of tire and doesn't work well with high pressures. Lower the front tire pressure a bit.

Tacoed Rim will cause a nasty vibe at speed. Both ends are soft. The front especially since its taller than a lot of guys are accustomed to riding too. Bends and weight issues are aggravated by the bigger rim. Its more important than most ADV bikes to keep an eye on these to keep them straight and true.

Bad Tire. They are out there.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:32 AM   #59
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I just purchase a new to me 2005 KTM 950 which has Dunlop 908s on it. And I rode the bike home (a little over an hr drive) and noticed a wobble immediately!! Scared the Sh$t out of me!
The tires are definitely pretty done - but I have been through all the adjustments as well. Rear pre-load change it every which way possible... Steering dampener does help dampen the effect but its just a band-aid.
Added some beads to the tube - which seemed to help a little - or maybe I'm just seeing things I cant tell!
Also new steering head bearings - also had to re-tighten these and see if that helped (not really)... New rear wheel bearings as there was some minimal play... ALL of this added together seems to have made very very minimal difference. Also dropped the triple clamps a an inch or so as they were at the highest possible position and lowering them only seem to make matters worse. And the wobble was evident at much lower speeds. I have put over 1000kms on the bike like this its just scary sh$t on the highways... Over the weekend had a good long tour with the lowered triple clamp (which was a bad idea) as I had to keep pulling over to the right lane and slow the f$&k down to stop the wobble.. but at times I could slide my ass back on the seat and push forward on the handlebars and it would smooth out to a minimum and was manageable but eery...

I am picking up a set of 19 / 17's as was planned anyway so I am going to throw these on and see if it eliminates the problem all together.... IF it does then as the 12 / 18 rubber is due for replacement at the minimum anyway I will investigate the rims further for 'out of round' etc.. new rubber / wheels etc... or proper balance...
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:33 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVill View Post
While riding the bike, stand up and look at the front tire. You'd swear the wheel was not true but it's the tire! Must be some bad casting going on at Pirelli on these Scorpions. Pretty pitiful.
actually.
I noticed the shake within 2 miles after leaving the guy's house that bought it from. I thought "this bike's been wrecked. I just got screwed"!! After checking things out, I figured:
1) Not been wrecked
2) Wheel was true
3) Balance could be off
4) HOLY SHIT, look at that tire while it's spinning!!! The tire itself is not true.
I don't believe it is the Pirelli. I thought so too originally, then I bought and wore out three more Heidenau's. Everyone of them did the same thing, the wheel rim spun true but the tire bulged in spots. But now I believe there is something not right about the inside bead on the rim itself. Someone had mentioned that the spoke insulator caused this by raising the bead of the tire when it is not precisely placed in the trough over the spokes. When I checked mine while installing the second Heidenau, I did indeed find that the the insulator was indeed misaligned but after adjusting this is still wobbled and the tire still acted like it had a bulge.

I finally fixed mine, by raising the forks in the triple trees about a 1/2 inch. Tire still thumps like it is out of round, but there is no wobble.
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