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Old 04-26-2013, 08:49 PM   #1
Motorfiets OP
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College kid wants to race rallies

I'm frustrated!!! I want to race an international (hopefully South America) rally this year and I have gotten no where with anyone that could offer any insight into fixed costs, regulations, bike requirements, equipment requirements, can I run malle-moto... can I not? etc, etc, etc... the list goes on and on!

I'm very interested in the Rally Dos Sertoes or the Ruta 40 race.... can anyone point me in the right direction?

my ideal scenario:
1 - race without an assistance team - I'll take one friend along to help work on the bike in the evenings (can he get a ride every day to the next stage end?)

2 - I want to have someone else transport my spares/tools/camp gear much like the Dakar Malle Moto (would I be able to do this with a team member or strictly alone?

3 - REASONABLE shipping costs to and from the USA

4 - what bike gear is necessary? ERTF... Unik1 or 2? Sentinal? Rastro? Baliese?

5 - do everything on a VERY tight budget...

Any help would be greatly appreciated... so far everyone I've talked to seems to be either busy with other things or have deep pockets...
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:30 PM   #2
fetid_swamp
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dont know if there's such a thing as cheap international rallying.
not SA but deffo have a look at this if only for background:

http://www.australasiansafari.com.au/website/home.html
https://www.facebook.com/AustralasianSafari
compeditors info
http://www.australasiansafari.com.au...mpetitors.html
malles moto & service crew bus & bike hire
http://www.australasiansafari.com.au.../services.html

and email them to see if they have the free return bike shipping from USA still going. that'd have to up the affordability

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ghlight=safari

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Old 04-27-2013, 07:29 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by fetid_swamp View Post
dont know if there's such a thing as cheap international rallying.
not SA but deffo have a look at this if only for background:

http://www.australasiansafari.com.au/website/home.html
https://www.facebook.com/AustralasianSafari
compeditors info
http://www.australasiansafari.com.au...mpetitors.html
malles moto & service crew bus & bike hire
http://www.australasiansafari.com.au.../services.html

and email them to see if they have the free return bike shipping from USA still going. that'd have to up the affordability

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ghlight=safari

Thanks for the links... unfortunately the Australian Safari falls during the school year... something like that I would not be able to attend.

I FULLY understand that international rallies cost money.... when I say budget and was given the choice of hotel every night or tent I would pick a tent... likewise with shipping... air freight or boat? boat... full mechanic team or self? self...
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:05 AM   #4
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When you say "everyone I've talked to...", does this include the obvious - the Dos Sertoes Rally organisers? I'd think they would be a very good "everyone" to start with. A good start would be to review the reg's from one of the past events, as the reg's don't change too much from year to year, and they can probably provide that if you can't simply download it from their website yourself. It'll give you a very good idea of most of the questions you have. Finishing a rally will take a lot more dogged determination than you seem to be showing so far. There's also downloading reg's from other similar events like the Desert Challenge that uses the same nav gear. Also try checking the web site of ERTF and TDCOM for details of the equipment they sell and rent for rallys. That'll give you an idea of the costs of the compulsory gear.

I have done a few threads on the builds of a couple of rally bikes (640Adventure for 2008 Aus Safari, 530EXC for Safari and Desert Challenge - including all the nav gear for FIM WCCR Championships). Have you checked those out? (I could be an "everyone"). I started on a tight budget when building the 640 (albeit the Safari doesn't require all the GPS, Sentinel and Balise like the FIM rallys) so most of the mod's were homegrown or stuff bought second hand. The budget grew for the 530 because I realised the wisdom of sometimes you spend more to save money. I'll argue that I'm still on a very tight budget but buying a factory rally bike (KTM 450RFR) makes the best economic sense - once again spending big to save money in the long run.

As for the tight budget, the people with "deep pockets" are extremely rare - everyone is doing it on a budget and as cheap as possible. It's just that "as cheap as possible" is still pretty pricey, and rally riders appreciate that sometimes spending less is more expensive. I've done a few rallys and almost everyone stays in tents (generally that's what the organisers offer as part of the entry), ships their bikes (unless they really have to airfreight for other reasons - I airfreighted one direction but seafreight home to minimise costs), takes minimum people (or gets them to pay their own way) and does their own servicing or hooks up with a service package from a team (once again can actually be cheaper). Some might option in one or two extra's for specific reasons, but always watching the budget.

The other issue for you is being USA based makes it difficult for people to help, as very, very few Americans have done this type of rallying. Spread your enquiries further afield (as you're doing with this thread) and make them less "goegraphic". Find out yourself through shipping agents for freight costs and arrangements - just like I had to and everyone else does. It's too specific to where you are and the size and weight of your bike crate/spares/etc.

One last word - The Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge is a very easy event to do logistically, because the bivouac is at the same place every night. This makes the service packages very affordable and the race very easy to get to. This is somewhat offset by the difficulty of the actual riding, but it's called the Desert "Challenge" for a reason! I've been to it twice and the cost is very similar to doing the Safari and the Safari is in my backyard! Worth considering if it fits with your studies.

Best of luck with the hunt for info. Keep us informed as to how you get on. Maybe we'll get a ride report from you one day after your first rally.
Cheers
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:49 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by JayBo1 View Post
When you say "everyone I've talked to...", does this include the obvious - the Dos Sertoes Rally organisers? I'd think they would be a very good "everyone" to start with. A good start would be to review the reg's from one of the past events, as the reg's don't change too much from year to year, and they can probably provide that if you can't simply download it from their website yourself. It'll give you a very good idea of most of the questions you have. Finishing a rally will take a lot more dogged determination than you seem to be showing so far. There's also downloading reg's from other similar events like the Desert Challenge that uses the same nav gear. Also try checking the web site of ERTF and TDCOM for details of the equipment they sell and rent for rallys. That'll give you an idea of the costs of the compulsory gear.

I have done a few threads on the builds of a couple of rally bikes (640Adventure for 2008 Aus Safari, 530EXC for Safari and Desert Challenge - including all the nav gear for FIM WCCR Championships). Have you checked those out? (I could be an "everyone"). I started on a tight budget when building the 640 (albeit the Safari doesn't require all the GPS, Sentinel and Balise like the FIM rallys) so most of the mod's were homegrown or stuff bought second hand. The budget grew for the 530 because I realised the wisdom of sometimes you spend more to save money. I'll argue that I'm still on a very tight budget but buying a factory rally bike (KTM 450RFR) makes the best economic sense - once again spending big to save money in the long run.

As for the tight budget, the people with "deep pockets" are extremely rare - everyone is doing it on a budget and as cheap as possible. It's just that "as cheap as possible" is still pretty pricey, and rally riders appreciate that sometimes spending less is more expensive. I've done a few rallys and almost everyone stays in tents (generally that's what the organisers offer as part of the entry), ships their bikes (unless they really have to airfreight for other reasons - I airfreighted one direction but seafreight home to minimise costs), takes minimum people (or gets them to pay their own way) and does their own servicing or hooks up with a service package from a team (once again can actually be cheaper). Some might option in one or two extra's for specific reasons, but always watching the budget.

The other issue for you is being USA based makes it difficult for people to help, as very, very few Americans have done this type of rallying. Spread your enquiries further afield (as you're doing with this thread) and make them less "goegraphic". Find out yourself through shipping agents for freight costs and arrangements - just like I had to and everyone else does. It's too specific to where you are and the size and weight of your bike crate/spares/etc.

One last word - The Abu Dhabi Desert Challenge is a very easy event to do logistically, because the bivouac is at the same place every night. This makes the service packages very affordable and the race very easy to get to. This is somewhat offset by the difficulty of the actual riding, but it's called the Desert "Challenge" for a reason! I've been to it twice and the cost is very similar to doing the Safari and the Safari is in my backyard! Worth considering if it fits with your studies.

Best of luck with the hunt for info. Keep us informed as to how you get on. Maybe we'll get a ride report from you one day after your first rally.
Cheers

Awesome!! thanks for the response!

I have contacted the race organizers but still have yet to hear back from them. It is an issue because I do not speak Portuguese... and I feel that I may never get a response? Ideally it would be nice to have an english speaking contact that could assist. If I knew that I could have my bike shipped and at the start line race day I would be all over it like dog shit on the bottom on your shoes

I've shipped bikes overseas before and it took months of research to finally find the right company to ship and then I wasn't on a schedule like I would be if I needed my bike there on race day. When I shipped my bike back from Vladivostok it took close to a month longer than originally promised... something like that wouldn't work if I put so much effort and MONEY forth just to show on race day with no bike....

Determination?!! Road Of Bones on a 800gs with busted wheel bearings is determination!



Bike prep I love.. I built and modded my 800 to buggery and love making my own parts...



self made low fender mounts and LED mounts to save the $115 mecasystems wants...



As far as nav gear... I have to availibty to buy an ERTF bracket, antennas and repeater.... PROBLEM is... if I buy this and Rally Dos Sertoes uses something else... what then? all that money for nothing? I have downloaded every .pdf document I can regarding ERTF and IRITRACK and seem to be "fairly" clued into what I need.... again issue however is... what does each specific event require?

I have read through your threads! they have been great help!

Nothing against you... but it seems as if you went with a team to the Rally Dos Sertoes and had other people helping you... NOTHING wrong with that and I would LOVE to have the same for myself... BUT!!! I am seemingly on the wrong coast for anything desert related or near like minded desert nuts aka So Cal... It is obviously a lot easier when you have someone local and or someone willing to help.

Ride report... you can bet your droe wors en biltong on that!

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Old 04-27-2013, 10:10 AM   #6
Manolito
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You want to race Ruta 40? I think it's kinda late. You still can pay for the rally but it starts in 40 days. I don't know how long it takes to bring the bike from the US to Argentina.

Here's a bit of information, very usefull BTW

registration: $ 18.500 (3572 dollars). It includes you + 1 assistance guy (you have to pay 489 dollars for each extra guy), all the meals, insurance, iritrack, gps and sentinel. You have to pay for the fuel,fees, hotel, towing, gps iritrack and sentinel bracket, and the registration of the assistance vehicle.
You do an advance payment of 869 dollars (before 6/5/2013), and you pay the rest when they check your bike.


That's all I know, maybe you can email the organisation : info@desafioruta40.com
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:13 AM   #7
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Can I assume you read Bluebulls (Neil) excellent report he wrote up when he went a couple of years ago? A few answers to your questions in there


Have your buddy rent a car for support maybe ? Cost may end up the same as hiring a support package....


Good luck
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:20 AM   #8
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I have... Question becomes... What has changed?

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Old 04-27-2013, 10:23 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Manolito View Post
You want to race Ruta 40? I think it's kinda late. You still can pay for the rally but it starts in 40 days. I don't know how long it takes to bring the bike from the US to Argentina.

Here's a bit of information, very usefull BTW

registration: $ 18.500 (3572 dollars). It includes you + 1 assistance guy (you have to pay 489 dollars for each extra guy), all the meals, insurance, iritrack, gps and sentinel. You have to pay for the fuel,fees, hotel, towing, gps iritrack and sentinel bracket, and the registration of the assistance vehicle.
You do an advance payment of 869 dollars (before 6/5/2013), and you pay the rest when they check your bike.


That's all I know, maybe you can email the organisation : info@desafioruta40.com
I've gathered all that same information so far.

3 issues...
1 - how will my team member get transport everyday?
2 - how do I get my bike there and back? Maybe sell it when I get there?
3 - who will carry spares? Malle moto style?

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Old 04-27-2013, 10:43 AM   #10
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The organization uses a company to ship the bike to/from Argentina. You can sell it if you want, the bikes in Argentina are more expensive than in the US.
I think that the best choice is to rent a vehicle, so that your team can make it to the vivac and move freely.It's not a long race.. you are not going to need to much spare , tyres,etc.

Quote:
who will carry spares? Malle moto style?
I think so.

I can upload pictures of '11 Ruta 40 that I took when I was in the Vivac.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:43 AM   #11
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Since bike ship/prep is such an ordeal, why not do a bike rental at one of the easier-to-get-to Euro or Africa rallies? Your costs will be roughly the same, probably a little cheaper because youre bound to have hiccoughs the first time, going alone. You'll be paying for the convenience, but you will also use the effort to gain valuable insight from actual competitors on the ground doing it the way You want to... Plus you can concentrate on getting to the finish without a lot of logistical distractions.
Use this gained knowledge to then put together your own racing team.
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:31 PM   #12
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Since bike ship/prep is such an ordeal, why not do a bike rental at one of the easier-to-get-to Euro or Africa rallies? Your costs will be roughly the same, probably a little cheaper because youre bound to have hiccoughs the first time, going alone. You'll be paying for the convenience, but you will also use the effort to gain valuable insight from actual competitors on the ground doing it the way You want to... Plus you can concentrate on getting to the finish without a lot of logistical distractions.
Use this gained knowledge to then put together your own racing team.
I've thought long and hard about this decision! But being a dumb kid... I get very emotionally attached to my bikes... And I would love to know something I built raced and finished... Not something I rented... I know its stupid... But I love pushing my mechanical skills... 5 years ago I never touched even swapping my own tires... Now I'll pull the engine on any of my bikes and preform any service. Plus... I bought a rally bike to race and thus I want to race it.


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Old 04-27-2013, 12:33 PM   #13
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Plus... My budget would require selling my 525 ASAP to afford renting...

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Old 04-29-2013, 05:34 AM   #14
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:19 PM   #15
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Ben - you have great enthusiasm,,,, funny thing I too want to get into rally racing,, but being in Miami, FL, no training grounds! I really have to get out for anything close to training for that kind of stuff. My plan is to do hare scrambles and Enduros in my state for at least a year or so, then jump into the NORAA mexican 1000 rally (BAJA Mexico), also heard a group of people are organizaing another Rally also baja Mexico later in October or so,,, I'm only giving you this info so you consider what others are doing to prep for rally. I was in Peru for the start of Dakar 2013 and it was amazing!!! Dakar is the ultimate goal,, but that a long, long,long,, possibly dream (costly, challenging, lots of time, did I mention $$$$). anyway, good luck and look forward to reading your posts in future.. Regards, Frank
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