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Old 04-27-2013, 09:06 AM   #211
DirtJack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmckiwi View Post
A friend of mine has a 690r '09 thats been having an issue when starting, the bike starts fine from dead cold but once its been ridden and left to sit for a while it won't fire, you can crank it and it just cranks and cranks but won't fire unless you give it a little throttle.

He originally had a wings pipe on it and had the akra map but has put the standard pipe back on to see if that makes any difference which is doesn't, he had risers on the bars and the throttle cables were a bit tight so we re-routed those to take some tension off the cables, I connected it up to my computer and checked the voltage and it was all correct so he tried it for a few weeks to see if the cables were the issues but it made no difference.

Today I went around and we pulled the airbox out and tested the voltages open and closed which were all correct and within the factory range, the TPS was 3-98% even after the throttle reset. After confirming the voltages were all correct I remapped it from the Akra map that was on it to the factory maps, reset the throttle and did the 15min idle. After that the TPS had changed to 1-98% so better but not perfect. We wondered if the throttle cables could be still a bit tight so we tried adjusting each cable in and out half a turn but saw no difference in the % figures so set them back to where we started.
So after setting it back to the factory map, confirming voltages and have the TPS at 1-98% we left it for 20-30mins to see if the issue was resolved, hit the starter and same issue as before, its cranks until you give it a touch of throttle and then starts. He's going to run it for the week with the standard pipe to see what its like and then we'll put the wings pipe back on and I'll map it back to Akra map and try for another week.

As far as the bike goes its got a new fuel filter, new battery, no broke cables as far as we can see and its well serviced and apart from the starting issue when warm runs really well, it had the error code from disconnecting the air sensor when we had the airbox off but I cleared that and everything else was fine, is there something we are missing re the TPS being 1-98% or something else we should be checking?? I had hoped to find the voltage out and an adjustment would fix it but not luck, any suggestions would be welcomed as would love to fix it.
When was the last valve clearance check done? Tight valves can also cause starting issues.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:21 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by AMa. View Post
SMC maps and Enduro maps ( KM765xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) are the same as far as I have compared them with each other. I have not checked EVERY map.

I suggest you get rid of the stock filter, it is the most restricting item. You will get very little or no power gain at all with just the slip-on and software.

i did a compare also and couldnt see any differences.

im not after power, the idea behind the slip on was just to get rid of the cat.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:11 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by fluff34567 View Post
i did a compare also and couldnt see any differences.

im not after power, the idea behind the slip on was just to get rid of the cat.
I was told by Gorazd-The-Wings-Dealer that small or large noise killer does not require mapping. Without does (=Akramap). I'm not familiar with the LV pipes. Maybe You should email LeoVince?
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:44 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by AMa. View Post
I suggest you get rid of the stock filter, it is the most restricting item. You will get very little or no power gain at all with just the slip-on and software.
Stock filter actually have good airflow, better then alot of foam filters. Sucks when wet tho.
The gain is in the lid or no lid :
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:52 PM   #215
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Stock filter actually have good airflow, better then alot of foam filters. Sucks when wet tho.
The gain is in the lid or no lid :
Sir, you are 100% right. I was not precise with my output, apologies for that.

Any of those solutions in this picture is way better than stock. None of them is significantly better than the other. "Modattu vakio" is my native language meaning modified stock. It has a couple of holes drilled and standard coolant hoses routed through them to avoid water splattering. I have measured the effect of them all by 10Hz GPS datalogger and the acceleration curve over RPM made no real difference. But compared to stock did, though.

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Old 04-27-2013, 05:54 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by AMa. View Post
Was the throttle calibration done (ON-open slowly-close slowly-OFF (with the key))?

Was the 15 min idle done starting with stone-cold engine?

Is the intake setup changed between 15min re-adaptations?

Are the SAI and O2 checked OFF in the Akramap? Is the SAS and O2 hardware still mounted to the bike and operational (not plugged etc) ?

Have you tried without the raisers?

I have similar TPS readings without issues. I never get 0-100%.
Calibration was done, we tried that a couple of weeks ago and made no difference, the Akra map was from the dealers so everything was on and no errors, I've changed it back to the factory map and recalibrated everthing again. Haven't taken the risers off but re-routed the cables to under the throttle to make sure they weren't stretched, saying that it did it from before those were fitted. Valve clearances are in range to my knowledge, he is a bike mechanic and his bikes are always spot on so confident thats not an issue.

I also have a similar thread on Supermotojunkie as I have a Duke, sounds like the TPS figures are correct showing 1-3% down low just not sure if I should be seeing more the 98% up top, sounds like from all the feedback so far even though its giving the correct voltages thats still most likely the issue, the suggestions seem to be look at raising those voltages to the higher end of the range and see if that works. I think we will just go over the free play in the throttle again and then adjust the voltages up a little and hopefully that will fix it.
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:24 AM   #217
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There is an idle adjustment I think. What is idle RPM when running at normal operating temperature?
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:51 PM   #218
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As above I have the same issues. My tps is 1-98% , cant remember the voltage exactly but 0.65v sound familiar.
My idle is showing as 1650rpm. SAI and O2 are checked on with a Lv can SAS is installed.

sent using my fingers and voodoo magic.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:53 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by fluff34567 View Post
As above I have the same issues. My tps is 1-98% , cant remember the voltage exactly but 0.65v sound familiar.
My idle is showing as 1650rpm. SAI and O2 are checked on with a Lv can SAS is installed.

sent using my fingers and voodoo magic.
Turn SAI off (it is used only during warm-up to start CAT in stock can which you no longer have). Take SAS off since you have a Lv.
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Old 05-03-2013, 08:04 AM   #220
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KTM 690 stalling and jerking issues end up time to time with a remedy to modify the F-L map to 10,10,0,0,0,0,0 which means practically pure F-map usage. In that mod 10% L-map is used in in 1000-1300 rpm. The bike idles at 1600-1700 rpm.

The remedy is usually for 654cc bikes, (-2011). I wanted to find out if it works in 690cc LC4 too.

I have a well-functioning, already modified EVO1 map in my bike. It has following mods:

F1: "Stock" EVO1 KM765EU12B0231
F2: +3% pulse width
F3: +6% pulse width

L1: "Stock" EVO1 KM765EU12B0231
L2: +3% pulse width
L3: +6% pulse width

SAI OFF
O2 ON

Otherwise as KM765EU12B0231 -> that was the "mothermap" I modified with F-L values of 10,10,0,0,0,0,0. "Stock EVO1" has much higher values, for exaple there is 55% in 3000 rpm and 59% in 4000 rpm. So the bike uses L-map practically always except WFO.


Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw0J4...ature=youtu.be

Throtte response was slow compared to "Stock EVO1" and stalling occured near idle. You have pay attention on your throttle when cruising near idle.
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Old 05-03-2013, 02:01 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
Great idea, but wouldn't you want to do a reset-adaptation and 15 min idle when changing the switch position?
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Yes, if the hardware setup has been changed I would. If only mapping changes it doesn't need re-adaptation as far as I think -> at least when the changes are minor, like a little fuel trim.
I managed to get KTM 690 2013 stock maps and found out that now there are differences between maps 1, 2 and 3 in F, L and I maps. Again, I think that switch between fuel map to another does not require a 15 min idle.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:23 AM   #222
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Ama, just wanted to say thanks for posting your observations regarding the 2012 fuel mappings. I came to the very same conclusions with my own testing over the past few months on my 2012. The F-L one was especially true.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:28 PM   #223
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I managed to get KTM 690 2013 stock maps and found out that now there are differences between maps 1, 2 and 3 in F, L and I maps. Again, I think that switch between fuel map to another does not require a 15 min idle.
It makes one wonder just what adaptation is occurring during the 15 minute idle if doesn't involve the map. Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:30 PM   #224
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It makes one wonder just what adaptation is occurring during the 15 minute idle if doesn't involve the map. Inquiring minds want to know.
Maybe it is calibrating IAT and MAP sensors between ambient temp -> 104°C, when the fan kicks in. Also, I doubt that TuneECU shows us everything involved with electronic engine control.

I monitored my bike with TuneECU plugged in last time I executed the 15 min adapt. Almost all the time O2 was active (I had the O2 ticked ON in my custom map) so it does at least closed-loop adaptation aka short and long term fuel trim. Injection pulses were much wider than L-map default is throughout the whole 15 min session. With cold engine much, much wider of course, but ~20% wider also in operating temperature. Of course this is only 1500-1650 rpm & 330-360 hPa ballpark. If this is what really happens and this note can be extrapolated to wider range of rpm scale, this means the mix is very lean on open-loop L-map.

During the 15 min ignition was retarded by 1,5° in 104°C. It was done by 0,5° steps during the last 3-4 minutes (10°...8,5°) and it was linked with IAT, not coolant temp.

It think it is time to stop guessing and plug in a wideband lambda. Has anyone been able to log data from KTM via OBD2? TuneECU has no logger and it would be challenging to monitor sensor readings from a laptop screen doing a flat-out roaddyno test run.. It would be helpful to get MAP, IAT, IGN and fuel trim logged in parallel with AFR from WBL.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:41 PM   #225
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Ama, just wanted to say thanks for posting your observations regarding the 2012 fuel mappings. I came to the very same conclusions with my own testing over the past few months on my 2012. The F-L one was especially true.
Thank you.

Here is another video with different software mod onboard. Main difference is F-L map, which is stock now. With this + richer L-map + rpm-relative EP-map (Proge mod in video), it is almost impossible to stall the bike. Also no "hunting" in low speed cruising. (is hunting the right term for jerky ride?)

In the video at 0:18 finnish words "Loiva alamäki" means a gentle downhill.

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0IX9Nek1cc
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