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Old 05-07-2013, 06:12 PM   #1021
Mr Fast
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Scotty's quote of Danny's above is accurate. The suburban was part of LAMEco's chase crew. Our rider Patrick Ditson stopped & talked to Jimmy about 5 miles before the accident. Jimmy told Patrick that he would shadow him in. Patrick said that he seemed pretty tired. Jimmy followed Patrick for awhile but then Patrick lost him. Patrick is pretty fast & I would imagine that Jimmy couldn't keep up with him. The ground in front of the vado was washed out & it was a pretty good hump to get over it. I can easily understand why he didn't get over it. It was totally inexcusable that the rock crawler buggy was that close. He had plenty of room to go around. Danny didn't mention that Bud Feldkamp was with him. He was worried about Buddy Jr. Buddy was the Doctor that had come up on the accident and had tried to save Jimmy. When Danny said he got there in 10 minutes he wasn't kidding. Jimmy(the suburban) has some pretty trick suspension. However Danny needs to learn to listen. When Bud Feldkamp suggests that you're running trophy truck speeds you need to slow down.
I talked to Marty the day we left Cabo. The current plan for next year is to let the really fast guys on bikes go first, then the cars And trucks and finally the rest of the bikes. Their desire is to increase the vintage and motorcycle numbers in this event. They realize that the only significant growth must come from the bikes.
We're all hurting right now and feel strongly for Jimmy and his wife and family. Jimmy was living the dream, the one we all aspire to. I pray that he is getting some tips now From Steve McQueen and Bud Ekins. God Bless you Jimmy.
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Mr Fast screwed with this post 05-07-2013 at 06:21 PM
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:17 PM   #1022
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According to Mr Pearlman they are going to put fast bikes out front, then cars, and last the slower bikes. ( looks like mr fast, aka dad, beat me to it)

This race seemed way more intense than last year. I was passed by the red buggy (the one that hit #13) with less than 6" between his wheels and myself. I could have easily reached out and touched his tires. There was a white buggy running close to him that did the same thing. My Robby Gordon pass last year was tame compared to these guys. Shit my first encounter with a TT in the baja 1000 was less scary.

It would be nice to keep it a vintage rally, let the "fast" guys race score.

It looks like NORRA is a stand up outfit, they have Jimmy's race number in the header as a tribute.

-John
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azcagiva screwed with this post 05-07-2013 at 07:23 PM
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:32 PM   #1023
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Race etiquette

I was witness to the scene where jimmy passed. I arrived 24 minafter CPR had been started by physician on scene. Im also a physician and after assessing jimmy we decided to stop CPR. Jimmy was gone at this point. I see death in my business with regularity, but, this was different.

The section jimmy died on was a very slow, very rocky, and dangerous. It was also 7 miles from the end of a long day. There is NO excuse for that buggy being that close to anything at that point; be iit other car or a bike. The driver that hit jimmy will live with that fact for his life.

I won't race anymore. It's not worth it to me. I've nothing to prove and too much to loose. That's me though. NORRA did all that could be done under the circumstances. I've ridden a couple SCORE events and was turned off by the intensity. I tried NORRA hoping it would be different. Unfortunatly the series is evolving and the intensity is just below the surface. One of the high dollar guys even had chopper!?


RIP Jimmy
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:30 PM   #1024
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I think moving the slower bikes to behind the cars is a mistake. The only thing worse than being passed by a buggy is passing one. Similarly, the only thing worse than being passed by a fast driver is being passed by a slow driver. I think starting slower bikes after all the cars is putting those riders at greater risk than starting them up front.

For those guys in the secondary motorcycle pack, you'll have to treat it like a trail ride, not a competition. Maybe thats fine, but I would be very uncomfortable.

I know less than all of you about the course area in which the incident happened and the people involved, but I would caution us on drawing too many conclusions for a couple reasons.

1) Cars and bikes are faster and slow in different areas.
2) There is going to be an accordion effect when the terrain goes from flat out to slow and rocky.
3) If a rider or driver has his ear plugs in and his race face on, he may not know you're there until you're very close. I don't care how loud your horn is, I won't be able to hear it when you're 100 yards behind me.
4) If the rider doesn't know you are there or doesn't let you past, you're going to have to get pretty close to them to take advantage of the terrain when it does open up, especially when it is a slower accelerating car passing a faster accelerating bike.

This has nothing to do with the people involved or what really happened, but you can imagine a truck catching up to a bike, trying to get close enough to get their attention right as the terrain changes compounded by a bike having a problem and what you're left with is a terrible, terrible accident.

I feel really sad and disappointed about what happened and there are definitely things NORRA can do to improve the safety, but you can't remove all of the risk and I don't suggest they dramatically reinvent the format to try and do so.

A couple things that might help:

1) Make sure the cars have extremely loud horns. If the bikes are starting behind the cars, make sure they have extremely loud horns.
2) Throw anyone out of the race for passing a bike close or any contact with another vehicle. I mean anyone. All the bikes and cars could be required to carry GoPro cameras and expected to report anything unsafe.
3) Throw anyone out of the race for not letting someone pass them as soon as it is safe. Use the cameras.


Ride safe everyone. I hope to see you all next year.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:04 PM   #1025
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The car that tagged a bike on day 3 is trying to get a hold of the rider to no avail. They believe the rider's name is McKenzie however there is no record of him with NORRA. They now think that the rider may not have been part of the event or an official entry. Please PM me if you know who this was so I can put them in contact with the car owner so they can pay for damages.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:19 PM   #1026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrownmxr View Post
One of the high dollar guys even had chopper!?
Is that a bad thing????? The chopper was there supporting the Herbst family because the pilot and owner of the chopper wanted to go, normally he gets reimbursed by them for using his chopper at the SCORE events, he did this race on his nickel. The Herbst family has used their chopper for medical emergencies many times at SCORE races.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:30 PM   #1027
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Having only three vintage bikes in the race would be boring
There were 39 motorcycles
I do not think the new modern motorcycles are going anywhere
I think you will only grow more do to the fact that score is catering more and more to the Vehicles

Running road book Racing is the way to go
I think they should drop all GPS from all vehicles
That way the guys in the car Guys need to slow down And think before the hammer the Throttle
Just my two cents
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:32 PM   #1028
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Iím still pretty serious about building a device that would automatically warn both the slower vehicle ahead and the faster vehicle coming up from behind about the impending pass (via a super loud beeper on each race vehicle). This would give the guy ahead the knowledge that something is coming up from behind, and give some time to find a safe place to move over. And the faster guy behind would know a race vehicle was up ahead even if he doesnít see it. This doesnít completely solve the dangerous driver problem, but it could significantly lessen the risk since the guy ahead would know something is coming, and have time to move over.

Whatís holding me back is that the idea of such a warning device doesnít seem to interest enough of the decision makers. It would also add some cost to the event, maybe $50 to $100 rental fee per vehicle per race (with many additional useful features besides the pass warning). As always, Iím interested in feedback on this concept.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:39 PM   #1029
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No

No not a bad thing. It's an example of the resources being poured into an event which I had wrongly assumed was more low key than it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
Is that a bad thing????? The chopper was there supporting the Herbst family because the pilot and owner of the chopper wanted to go, normally he gets reimbursed by them for using his chopper at the SCORE events, he did this race on his nickel. The Herbst family has used their chopper for medical emergencies many times at SCORE races.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:40 PM   #1030
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They use the system like that in the Dakar
I would use it
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:41 PM   #1031
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Proximity alarm

I for one think a proximity alert is a great idea. A new thread would be best to delve into it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
Iím still pretty serious about building a device that would automatically warn both the slower vehicle ahead and the faster vehicle coming up from behind about the impending pass (via a super loud beeper on each race vehicle). This would give the guy ahead the knowledge that something is coming up from behind, and give some time to find a safe place to move over. And the faster guy behind would know a race vehicle was up ahead even if he doesnít see it. This doesnít completely solve the dangerous driver problem, but it could significantly lessen the risk since the guy ahead would know something is coming, and have time to move over.

Whatís holding me back is that the idea of such a warning device doesnít seem to interest enough of the decision makers. It would also add some cost to the event, maybe $50 to $100 rental fee per vehicle per race (with many additional useful features besides the pass warning). As always, Iím interested in feedback on this concept.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:05 PM   #1032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
The car that tagged a bike on day 3 is trying to get a hold of the rider to no avail. They believe the rider's name is McKenzie however there is no record of him with NORRA. They now think that the rider may not have been part of the event or an official entry. Please PM me if you know who this was so I can put them in contact with the car owner so they can pay for damages.
I think John Volkman (on a Husaberg) was hit by a car on Day 3. Not sure if he is on ADV though.
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Old 05-07-2013, 09:31 PM   #1033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalacticGS View Post
I think John Volkman (on a Husaberg) was hit by a car on Day 3. Not sure if he is on ADV though.
Volkman (13) Husaberg, was punted by Butch Jensen's 462 on day 2 stage 5, 10 mi north of San Juanico. He is pissed, especially for a super mellow dude, and his crew even more so. As they should be. It took an act of God to get NORRA to DQ the assailant. I tell ya, some people have no business out there and the effects of horsepower, ego and adrenaline outweigh common sense.

You could be the best rider in the world, but when the vados aren't denoted by exclamation points in the RB, I'm over it. People that rode the Purisima to Loreto section in 2012, were on a different course this rear as a result of the storms last fall.

Franky, I was relieved to stop racing when I did. My wife getting sick was a blessing in disguise. Like JB said, and I respect his position, I think I wont race again, at least not like that.

Further, it ain't a rally, Nice folks they all are, but it ain't a freakin rally if the winner didn't even have a roadbook reader. Give a man a GPS file and he won't be watching for the vados, mis vatos.

my rally report here: Who Is Peter Hardy?

Scotty Breauxman screwed with this post 05-07-2013 at 09:51 PM
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:21 AM   #1034
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Is Volkman the guy with the badass rallied out blue and yellow Husaberg? He had a mechanical very early day 1 and then continued on his back up bike? If so if anyone knows how to reach him please PM me. My co rider went off the edge of the course day 2 ss1 and that guy stopped for 20 minutes to help us drag the bike, it was a seemingly impossible task, but with his help, hermanos Gomez, and a guy named Brandon we were able to get it done. If anyone knows Brandon I'd love his email too. We would not have been able to get back on track were it not for the precious time and effort that they spared. I am very grateful for their efforts and was not able to properly thank them.

And in terms of Jimmys crash, I rolled thru that scene as well, after he passed, the earlier poster that mentioned that it was a long slow section with a lot of visibility was correct. I am not judging or blaming the driver, but it seemed to me to that it was a weird place to be on top of a rider, it was a slow section with lots of large round rocks, and it got wider just after the accident. My guess as I stood and analyzed the site was that they may have been on his ass and prepping to pass on the left where it widened up. I have given up on trying to make sense of it.

My partners ride off the cliff slowed us down quite a bit that day, I rode the rest of the day after fucking around and losing 90 minutes or more. As such I was passed my many four wheelers, and in contrast to the complaints I found them to be polite and they gave me lots of room. And the sirens helped a lot, if I ran the race I would require them. This includes the guys that nerfed poor Jimmy.

This was my first ever off road race. I felt it was pretty safe (for what it is) from my experience on the course. But I have nothing to compare it to. My partner was having trouble and the Herbst guys (race winner and guys with chopper) saw he was struggling and pulled next to him to check and see if he was ok...

My $.02 is the problem is not the fast 4 wheelers, but the less experienced cagers. I was pretty amped to do this again next year. If they start the "slow" guys behind the trucks I'll probably take a pass as I feel that will cause more problems than it solves.

It's a shame Jimmys accident happened, it's a black cloud over what to me was a great event overall. My heart breaks for his family.

Again if anyone has contact info for Brandon riding a Honda 450 or the guy with the two Husabergs please PM me. Their actions assisting us were stand up and true to what club racing is all about.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:43 AM   #1035
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