ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Racing
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-07-2013, 06:17 PM   #1021
azcagiva
new orange flavor
 
azcagiva's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Camp Verde, AZ
Oddometer: 1,154
According to Mr Pearlman they are going to put fast bikes out front, then cars, and last the slower bikes. ( looks like mr fast, aka dad, beat me to it)

This race seemed way more intense than last year. I was passed by the red buggy (the one that hit #13) with less than 6" between his wheels and myself. I could have easily reached out and touched his tires. There was a white buggy running close to him that did the same thing. My Robby Gordon pass last year was tame compared to these guys. Shit my first encounter with a TT in the baja 1000 was less scary.

It would be nice to keep it a vintage rally, let the "fast" guys race score.

It looks like NORRA is a stand up outfit, they have Jimmy's race number in the header as a tribute.

-John
__________________
An Elefant never forgets.

www.Raceforthewounded.com

azcagiva screwed with this post 05-07-2013 at 07:23 PM
azcagiva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 06:32 PM   #1022
jbrownmxr
Gas Passer
 
jbrownmxr's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Orange Empire
Oddometer: 336
Race etiquette

I was witness to the scene where jimmy passed. I arrived 24 minafter CPR had been started by physician on scene. Im also a physician and after assessing jimmy we decided to stop CPR. Jimmy was gone at this point. I see death in my business with regularity, but, this was different.

The section jimmy died on was a very slow, very rocky, and dangerous. It was also 7 miles from the end of a long day. There is NO excuse for that buggy being that close to anything at that point; be iit other car or a bike. The driver that hit jimmy will live with that fact for his life.

I won't race anymore. It's not worth it to me. I've nothing to prove and too much to loose. That's me though. NORRA did all that could be done under the circumstances. I've ridden a couple SCORE events and was turned off by the intensity. I tried NORRA hoping it would be different. Unfortunatly the series is evolving and the intensity is just below the surface. One of the high dollar guys even had chopper!?


RIP Jimmy
__________________
"When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man."

JB
jbrownmxr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 07:30 PM   #1023
roadracer
Gnarly Adventurer
 
roadracer's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2004
Location: San Francisco
Oddometer: 343
I think moving the slower bikes to behind the cars is a mistake. The only thing worse than being passed by a buggy is passing one. Similarly, the only thing worse than being passed by a fast driver is being passed by a slow driver. I think starting slower bikes after all the cars is putting those riders at greater risk than starting them up front.

For those guys in the secondary motorcycle pack, you'll have to treat it like a trail ride, not a competition. Maybe thats fine, but I would be very uncomfortable.

I know less than all of you about the course area in which the incident happened and the people involved, but I would caution us on drawing too many conclusions for a couple reasons.

1) Cars and bikes are faster and slow in different areas.
2) There is going to be an accordion effect when the terrain goes from flat out to slow and rocky.
3) If a rider or driver has his ear plugs in and his race face on, he may not know you're there until you're very close. I don't care how loud your horn is, I won't be able to hear it when you're 100 yards behind me.
4) If the rider doesn't know you are there or doesn't let you past, you're going to have to get pretty close to them to take advantage of the terrain when it does open up, especially when it is a slower accelerating car passing a faster accelerating bike.

This has nothing to do with the people involved or what really happened, but you can imagine a truck catching up to a bike, trying to get close enough to get their attention right as the terrain changes compounded by a bike having a problem and what you're left with is a terrible, terrible accident.

I feel really sad and disappointed about what happened and there are definitely things NORRA can do to improve the safety, but you can't remove all of the risk and I don't suggest they dramatically reinvent the format to try and do so.

A couple things that might help:

1) Make sure the cars have extremely loud horns. If the bikes are starting behind the cars, make sure they have extremely loud horns.
2) Throw anyone out of the race for passing a bike close or any contact with another vehicle. I mean anyone. All the bikes and cars could be required to carry GoPro cameras and expected to report anything unsafe.
3) Throw anyone out of the race for not letting someone pass them as soon as it is safe. Use the cameras.


Ride safe everyone. I hope to see you all next year.
roadracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 08:04 PM   #1024
Strong Bad OP
n00balicious
 
Strong Bad's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Susana, CA
Oddometer: 4,351
The car that tagged a bike on day 3 is trying to get a hold of the rider to no avail. They believe the rider's name is McKenzie however there is no record of him with NORRA. They now think that the rider may not have been part of the event or an official entry. Please PM me if you know who this was so I can put them in contact with the car owner so they can pay for damages.
__________________
"I couldn't wait for success, so I went ahead without it."

Strong Bad screwed with this post 05-07-2013 at 08:22 PM
Strong Bad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 08:19 PM   #1025
Strong Bad OP
n00balicious
 
Strong Bad's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2007
Location: Santa Susana, CA
Oddometer: 4,351
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrownmxr View Post
One of the high dollar guys even had chopper!?
Is that a bad thing????? The chopper was there supporting the Herbst family because the pilot and owner of the chopper wanted to go, normally he gets reimbursed by them for using his chopper at the SCORE events, he did this race on his nickel. The Herbst family has used their chopper for medical emergencies many times at SCORE races.
__________________
"I couldn't wait for success, so I went ahead without it."
Strong Bad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 08:30 PM   #1026
Baja Dad
Beastly Adventurer
 
Baja Dad's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Norco California
Oddometer: 2,035
Having only three vintage bikes in the race would be boring
There were 39 motorcycles
I do not think the new modern motorcycles are going anywhere
I think you will only grow more do to the fact that score is catering more and more to the Vehicles

Running road book Racing is the way to go
I think they should drop all GPS from all vehicles
That way the guys in the car Guys need to slow down And think before the hammer the Throttle
Just my two cents
__________________
2015 support: Multitool,GPS IMS Aurora Rally Kriega, Raiden LS2, Helmets,
100Goggles,SIDI,Seat Concepts, Precision Concepts, MX1West,Dunlop
Baja Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 08:32 PM   #1027
HogWild
Scott Whitney
 
HogWild's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2003
Location: SoCal USA
Oddometer: 2,773
I’m still pretty serious about building a device that would automatically warn both the slower vehicle ahead and the faster vehicle coming up from behind about the impending pass (via a super loud beeper on each race vehicle). This would give the guy ahead the knowledge that something is coming up from behind, and give some time to find a safe place to move over. And the faster guy behind would know a race vehicle was up ahead even if he doesn’t see it. This doesn’t completely solve the dangerous driver problem, but it could significantly lessen the risk since the guy ahead would know something is coming, and have time to move over.

What’s holding me back is that the idea of such a warning device doesn’t seem to interest enough of the decision makers. It would also add some cost to the event, maybe $50 to $100 rental fee per vehicle per race (with many additional useful features besides the pass warning). As always, I’m interested in feedback on this concept.
__________________
.
New desert racing frontiers
It will be Devilish !
HogWild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 08:39 PM   #1028
jbrownmxr
Gas Passer
 
jbrownmxr's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Orange Empire
Oddometer: 336
No

No not a bad thing. It's an example of the resources being poured into an event which I had wrongly assumed was more low key than it was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
Is that a bad thing????? The chopper was there supporting the Herbst family because the pilot and owner of the chopper wanted to go, normally he gets reimbursed by them for using his chopper at the SCORE events, he did this race on his nickel. The Herbst family has used their chopper for medical emergencies many times at SCORE races.
__________________
"When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man."

JB
jbrownmxr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 08:40 PM   #1029
Baja Dad
Beastly Adventurer
 
Baja Dad's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Norco California
Oddometer: 2,035
They use the system like that in the Dakar
I would use it
__________________
2015 support: Multitool,GPS IMS Aurora Rally Kriega, Raiden LS2, Helmets,
100Goggles,SIDI,Seat Concepts, Precision Concepts, MX1West,Dunlop
Baja Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 08:41 PM   #1030
jbrownmxr
Gas Passer
 
jbrownmxr's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: Orange Empire
Oddometer: 336
Proximity alarm

I for one think a proximity alert is a great idea. A new thread would be best to delve into it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
I’m still pretty serious about building a device that would automatically warn both the slower vehicle ahead and the faster vehicle coming up from behind about the impending pass (via a super loud beeper on each race vehicle). This would give the guy ahead the knowledge that something is coming up from behind, and give some time to find a safe place to move over. And the faster guy behind would know a race vehicle was up ahead even if he doesn’t see it. This doesn’t completely solve the dangerous driver problem, but it could significantly lessen the risk since the guy ahead would know something is coming, and have time to move over.

What’s holding me back is that the idea of such a warning device doesn’t seem to interest enough of the decision makers. It would also add some cost to the event, maybe $50 to $100 rental fee per vehicle per race (with many additional useful features besides the pass warning). As always, I’m interested in feedback on this concept.
__________________
"When a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man."

JB
jbrownmxr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 09:05 PM   #1031
GalacticGS
1200 GS Rider
 
GalacticGS's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Camas, WA
Oddometer: 2,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
The car that tagged a bike on day 3 is trying to get a hold of the rider to no avail. They believe the rider's name is McKenzie however there is no record of him with NORRA. They now think that the rider may not have been part of the event or an official entry. Please PM me if you know who this was so I can put them in contact with the car owner so they can pay for damages.
I think John Volkman (on a Husaberg) was hit by a car on Day 3. Not sure if he is on ADV though.
__________________
Larry
2006 R1200GS; 2009 Husaberg Rally 570; 2011 Husaberg FE570
www.galacticgs.com
"Speak to me of summer, long winters longer than time can remember;
Setting up of other roads, travel on in old accustomed ways."
GalacticGS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2013, 09:31 PM   #1032
Scotty Breauxman
Baja Breaux
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Del Mar CA
Oddometer: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalacticGS View Post
I think John Volkman (on a Husaberg) was hit by a car on Day 3. Not sure if he is on ADV though.
Volkman (13) Husaberg, was punted by Butch Jensen's 462 on day 2 stage 5, 10 mi north of San Juanico. He is pissed, especially for a super mellow dude, and his crew even more so. As they should be. It took an act of God to get NORRA to DQ the assailant. I tell ya, some people have no business out there and the effects of horsepower, ego and adrenaline outweigh common sense.

You could be the best rider in the world, but when the vados aren't denoted by exclamation points in the RB, I'm over it. People that rode the Purisima to Loreto section in 2012, were on a different course this rear as a result of the storms last fall.

Franky, I was relieved to stop racing when I did. My wife getting sick was a blessing in disguise. Like JB said, and I respect his position, I think I wont race again, at least not like that.

Further, it ain't a rally, Nice folks they all are, but it ain't a freakin rally if the winner didn't even have a roadbook reader. Give a man a GPS file and he won't be watching for the vados, mis vatos.

my rally report here: Who Is Peter Hardy?

Scotty Breauxman screwed with this post 05-07-2013 at 09:51 PM
Scotty Breauxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 04:21 AM   #1033
Johnnymoto
Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Chicago
Oddometer: 79
Is Volkman the guy with the badass rallied out blue and yellow Husaberg? He had a mechanical very early day 1 and then continued on his back up bike? If so if anyone knows how to reach him please PM me. My co rider went off the edge of the course day 2 ss1 and that guy stopped for 20 minutes to help us drag the bike, it was a seemingly impossible task, but with his help, hermanos Gomez, and a guy named Brandon we were able to get it done. If anyone knows Brandon I'd love his email too. We would not have been able to get back on track were it not for the precious time and effort that they spared. I am very grateful for their efforts and was not able to properly thank them.

And in terms of Jimmys crash, I rolled thru that scene as well, after he passed, the earlier poster that mentioned that it was a long slow section with a lot of visibility was correct. I am not judging or blaming the driver, but it seemed to me to that it was a weird place to be on top of a rider, it was a slow section with lots of large round rocks, and it got wider just after the accident. My guess as I stood and analyzed the site was that they may have been on his ass and prepping to pass on the left where it widened up. I have given up on trying to make sense of it.

My partners ride off the cliff slowed us down quite a bit that day, I rode the rest of the day after fucking around and losing 90 minutes or more. As such I was passed my many four wheelers, and in contrast to the complaints I found them to be polite and they gave me lots of room. And the sirens helped a lot, if I ran the race I would require them. This includes the guys that nerfed poor Jimmy.

This was my first ever off road race. I felt it was pretty safe (for what it is) from my experience on the course. But I have nothing to compare it to. My partner was having trouble and the Herbst guys (race winner and guys with chopper) saw he was struggling and pulled next to him to check and see if he was ok...

My $.02 is the problem is not the fast 4 wheelers, but the less experienced cagers. I was pretty amped to do this again next year. If they start the "slow" guys behind the trucks I'll probably take a pass as I feel that will cause more problems than it solves.

It's a shame Jimmys accident happened, it's a black cloud over what to me was a great event overall. My heart breaks for his family.

Again if anyone has contact info for Brandon riding a Honda 450 or the guy with the two Husabergs please PM me. Their actions assisting us were stand up and true to what club racing is all about.
Johnnymoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 04:43 AM   #1034
cross-country
.
 
cross-country's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Location: Grand Junction, CO
Oddometer: 1,679
Johnnymoto >>> GalacticGS
cross-country is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 06:02 AM   #1035
az45
Adventurer
 
az45's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Tucson
Oddometer: 43
I race in the upper 3rd of the cars and have passed many bike guys over the past few years at NORRA. My rule of thumb is that if they are sitting down their tired or inexperienced and I use extreme caution. I usually wait as long as I can for a look back or a wave by before passing. It’s pretty rare that you have to wait too long, but if there’s plenty of room and the bike is riding a consistent line I pass.

I also pay attention to who’s starting in front of me and count bikes if there are any. NORRA should be telling the drivers how many bikes are ahead of them and how far; they have the start times so it would be easy. NORRA could also give the option to the bikes to be held without penalty if a car is going to be the next starter on a stage.

If you’re riding in the center of a graded road, or an inconsistent line of front of a car, you’re going to piss off the car guy. If you’re that guy, I want GoPro footage to get you DQ’d. If you’re the guy stopped on course reading his road book, I want you DQ’d as well.

NORRA gave Buddy is 1:20 back that he spent with the fallen rider, so he won his class. It was the second time he stopped to help during the race. The first time was a rolled truck that he was concerned the occupants wouldn’t be able to get out.
__________________
Jeff
az45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2015