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Old 05-08-2013, 06:10 AM   #1861
Dubl-A
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
I agree that design seems to have shortcomings, what with the examples of "totaled" bikes on various threads due to the left buddy peg folding up after auguring into dirt. It should have been designed with a breakaway point using a low-grade bolt.

The Hepco & Becker pannier mounts I installed on the XC impressed me with the way they tie in. There is an included plate with a hole and a guide pin. The guide fits snugly into the end of one of the tubes that are welded together at the buddy peg, and the peg's pin is replaced with a nut and bolt through the peg, mount, and the plate.



This design focuses the potential energy at the strongest point of that triangle, rather than simply clamping midway onto one of the tubes the way many others do.

It seems a well conceived design and I hope it proves itself in the long run.

Yea, unfortunately one of those totaled bikes was mine

How do you like the HB kit, got any pics? I ordered their engine guards, can't wait to see them in person!
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:49 AM   #1862
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Originally Posted by Dubl-A View Post
Re-read the quote. We were discussing the subframe being damaged.

When I dirt ride I take my panniers off and use the HT as a rear crashbar

You talking about the Triumph bags?
i see.
depending on where your sleeping that night you may not be able to drop the bags...
no, jesse luggage and caribou (with their rack and system) break away too. they don't break, just designed to break away...
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:27 AM   #1863
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Originally Posted by Dubl-A View Post
Yea, unfortunately one of those totaled bikes was mine

How do you like the HB kit, got any pics? I ordered their engine guards, can't wait to see them in person!
I chose the HB kit because my Caribou Cases on the 950 mount to HB. Haven't put the cases on the Tiger yet, but I was impressed with how durable the HB mounts were on the KTM after several test tip-overs with and without bags.

The HB mounts on the Tiger have the quick-release feature, which I may never use other than quick removal for bike maintenance access. I like having them there for added protection and might even come in handy as a defense against wayward minivans in parking lots. (glad to see you got everything resolved and are back into a new bike!)

In the two years of using the Caribou/HB setup on the KTM I am left impressed with the design of both the HB and Caribou Cases side of things. The Caribou case/mount clamp is a break-away design that is easily replaced, though I have never broken one. Should the need arise this should prevent undue stress to the case or the mount in a moving fall. I carry a spare when touring, just in case. The design prevents getting into one of those bungee/duct tape solutions to pannier mounting after an incident.

Once I get around to carrying the bags out and installing them I'll snap some shots. At the moment I'm recovering from some knee reconstruction and though I am riding again, I'm not quite up to easily carrying much stuff from the house to the bike.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:34 AM   #1864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubl-A View Post
Re-read the quote. We were discussing the subframe being damaged.

When I dirt ride I take my panniers off and use the HT as a rear crashbar

You talking about the Triumph bags?
1. The Tiger does not have a subframe. If it did, you just change the bent part each time you bend it. It is a single unit, from the front where it holds the fairing, lights and instrument cluster all the way to the back. One single welded on piece and when one part of it gets bent, the entire thing needs to be changed.
2. Yes, the passenger pegs are a problem, usually the first thing to hit the ground.
3. Hardware on the back does not protect the frame. It would need to deform instead of transferring the impact to the frame. The harder it is, the more of the impact it transfers to the frame. Soft bags crumple, they are good that way.
4. But I agree, because of number 2 above, you are f&*#ed either way. And as a matter of fact, some of the racks attach directly to the passenger pegs, which may or may not offer a lever effect to help bend it more easily.
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Lion BR screwed with this post 05-08-2013 at 07:41 AM
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:43 AM   #1865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
I chose the HB kit because my Caribou Cases on the 950 mount to HB. Haven't put the cases on the Tiger yet, but I was impressed with how durable the HB mounts were on the KTM after several test tip-overs with and without bags.

The HB mounts on the Tiger have the quick-release feature, which I may never use other than quick removal for bike maintenance access. I like having them there for added protection and might even come in handy as a defense against wayward minivans in parking lots. (glad to see you got everything resolved and are back into a new bike!)

In the two years of using the Caribou/HB setup on the KTM I am left impressed with the design of both the HB and Caribou Cases side of things. The Caribou case/mount clamp is a break-away design that is easily replaced, though I have never broken one. Should the need arise this should prevent undue stress to the case or the mount in a moving fall. I carry a spare when touring, just in case. The design prevents getting into one of those bungee/duct tape solutions to pannier mounting after an incident.

Once I get around to carrying the bags out and installing them I'll snap some shots. At the moment I'm recovering from some knee reconstruction and though I am riding again, I'm not quite up to easily carrying much stuff from the house to the bike.
Break-away setups are good.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:54 AM   #1866
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Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
This design focuses the potential energy at the strongest point of that triangle
It also gives the longest lever for bending the frame there. Whether this design is good or not is debatable in my opinion. I don't like it.

I kind of like the Jesse bag mounts - they are flat mild steel attaching to the frame in multiple points. Strong enough to carry the bags, soft enough to just bend away when hit. And it's steel - you can have it fixed in the boonies.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:27 AM   #1867
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Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
1. The Tiger does not have a subframe. If it did, you just change the bent part each time you bend it. It is a single unit, from the front where it holds the fairing, lights and instrument cluster all the way to the back. One single welded on piece and when one part of it gets bent, the entire thing needs to be changed.
2. Yes, the passenger pegs are a problem, usually the first thing to hit the ground.
3. Hardware on the back does not protect the frame. It would need to deform instead of transferring the impact to the frame. The harder it is, the more of the impact it transfers to the frame. Soft bags crumple, they are good that way.
4. But I agree, because of number 2 above, you are f&*#ed either way. And as a matter of fact, some of the racks attach directly to the passenger pegs, which may or may not offer a lever effect to help bend it more easily.
Lol you just reminded me of my wife...she speaks in number references

Yes, us owners are painfully aware of the welded frame..I use the term being it immediately describes the location.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:56 AM   #1868
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Originally Posted by fbj913 View Post
i see.
depending on where your sleeping that night you may not be able to drop the bags...
no, jesse luggage and caribou (with their rack and system) break away too. they don't break, just designed to break away...
You're right, you really would need to trust your camping neighbors!

I'm hoping if I do drop the bike with the aluminum cans on they crumple before the rear frame gets damged
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:17 AM   #1869
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Originally Posted by Dubl-A View Post
Lol you just reminded me of my wife...she speaks in number references

Yes, us owners are painfully aware of the welded frame..I use the term being it immediately describes the location.
I too own this bike. Easiest way to explain things to the people who need to see things in a simple form is to break it down into simple steps. I had a girlfriend once that would often give me lectures in 10 steps.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:37 AM   #1870
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I too own this bike. Easiest way to explain things to the people who need to see things in a simple form is to break it down into simple steps. I had a girlfriend once that would often give me lectures in 10 steps.

10 steps?! lol You must have been a naughty boyfriend!!
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:54 AM   #1871
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Originally Posted by cug View Post
It also gives the longest lever for bending the frame there. Whether this design is good or not is debatable in my opinion. I don't like it.
Consider the aspect of the load being spread to three additional points with most pannier mounts, including, to a limited degree, the opposite side mounting points through the crossover brace beneath the taillight. This adds significant increase in structural rigidity to the footpeg hanger that it otherwise would not have.

The HB adds this at the point where having resistance would offer the best advantage, by pulling in an opposing direction at the end of the lever arm.

Other attachment options don't change the length of the lever. it is the end of the footpeg mount regardless.

Preventing the lever (footpeg hanger) being used to fold the peg up toward the seat may actually be more likely with a clamp mount on a single tube nearer the fulcrum (welds) than it would be with a mount at the dual tube weld to resist movement at the end of the moment arm where the most mechanical advantage exists.

The way I see this it will take less resistance applied at the end to equal the resistance applied nearer the fulcrum to accomplish the same amount of prevention of movement. The HB seems to me to have the advantage.

Putting a clamp in the middle of a single tube might offer the chance of the tube failing at the clamped point and folding there, rather than at the weld, but insurance will still see this as a bent frame. I don't see the advantage of reinforcing the footpeg mount at a point closer to the welds.

No matter what, any pannier mount that attaches somewhere on the peg/hanger will offer a significant improvement over just leaving it hanging out there.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:00 AM   #1872
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Yea, unfortunately one of those totaled bikes was mine

How do you like the HB kit, got any pics? I ordered their engine guards, can't wait to see them in person!
Really, so your bike was totaled due to the passenger peg/frame area damage? Was that the only damage to the bike?
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:42 AM   #1873
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Really, so your bike was totaled due to the passenger peg/frame area damage? Was that the only damage to the bike?

Nah, a Minivan pinned it between a curb and dry humped it. Damaged almost every surface including the frame. What a PITA!!
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:45 AM   #1874
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Really, so your bike was totaled due to the passenger peg/frame area damage? Was that the only damage to the bike?

I don't know if that was the case for his bike. But I've seen it on a local rider's bike. He bought it back from insurance, welded the passenger pegs back (they had broken off at the welding points). His motorcycle's title says "salvage motorcycle" basically makes it worthless. But it is a fully functioning motorcycle with some welding marks and other minor scratches from the crash.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:24 PM   #1875
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Nah, a Minivan pinned it between a curb and dry humped it. Damaged almost every surface including the frame. What a PITA!!

That's funny! (Not about your bike but your comment on how it happened.)
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