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Old 05-07-2013, 06:16 PM   #16
shaddix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flei View Post
It is NOT just unfamiliar roads that can bite you on the ass! Was out riding today on roads I have driven for 30+ years and know very well. Beautiful day, 80 degrees, clear, calm! Enjoying the many corners on a twisty, hilly, 2-lane, tree-lined, state hwy. with 50MPH posted limit, doing about 55. Begin a "blind" (can't see the exit), sweeping, banked, 30 degree curve and see a dead tree has come down across my lane. Other lane has on-coming traffic. I was able to stop in time. Had I been going 60= maybe. 65= serious problem.
That's a good point, just 5 extra mph can make all the difference. I read something somewhere that an extra 5mph at the beginning of a stop equals an extra 25mph at the point you would have been at 0mph. I don't recall where I read that though
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:32 PM   #17
NJ-Brett
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I was going to say, its the roads you know that will get you.
You get complacent, and might be on the lookout on new roads.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:36 PM   #18
flei
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Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
I was going to say, its the roads you know that will get you.
You get complacent, and might be on the lookout on new roads.
I agree about familiar roads. It is easy to take what you know for granted and assume the road will be as it usually is; if something changes (e.g., the fallen tree, the deer, the car pulling out of a drive) and you are unprepared (or going TOO FAST!), you will have a problem.

I have been a firefighter/EMT in my small rural town for 20+ years and almost all motorcycle accidents I have responded to have involved LOCAL riders who have gotten into trouble (sometimes fatal). Often this appears to be the result of "over-confidence" (e.g., excessive speed, dangerous passing). Seldom have I seen accidents involving strangers to the area who are riding through.
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Old 05-07-2013, 10:45 PM   #19
doxiedog
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There are some long hairpins here,marked 25 mph.
Tall bank inside,drop outside,and you are not going,
To see where you are going,for up to 60 seconds.
They are fun,but kind of spooky.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:20 PM   #20
dwoodward
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Originally Posted by scottrnelson View Post
And that's why I don't end wide. If you start wide and go tight at the end you're in the right position for a turn that goes the other way.
A lot of riders think "outside-inside-outside". They aren't looking (or thiniking) far enough ahead. The proper line is "outside-inside-entrance of next corner".

Later apexes help... most of the time. Sometimes, if there are two curves going the same way, there isn't really an apex until the second corner.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:14 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
A lot of riders think "outside-inside-outside". They aren't looking (or thiniking) far enough ahead. The proper line is "outside-inside-entrance of next corner".
Setting up for the next corner is relevant only when the next corner is known, and it's within the window of effect.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:24 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by foxtrapper View Post
Setting up for the next corner is relevant only when the next corner is known, and it's within the window of effect.
It seems that you are going to stick to your opinion no matter what.

I watched a guy crash in front of me once when he entered an unknown S-turn that was tighter on the second (left) corner than on the first (right). He entered the corner planning to do it your way: "start wide, go tight, end wide" and ended up starting the next corner tight. He still could have made it, since he had plenty of track experience, including dragging knees, on that same bike. But because he had such an awkward line, he went off in the dirt on the right. I think he still could have ridden it out, but had no dirt experience, so as soon as he touched his front brake, down he went. The only injury was a broken clutch lever and a dirty bike. He rode it out of there after swapping the front brake lever over to the clutch side.

If that guy had entered this unknown corner planning to be on the inside at the end of the corner, he would have been in the perfect position to make the next one and I'm certain that he wouldn't have ended up off in the dirt.

The method I'm talking about is more important if the corner is UNKNOWN.

You ought to try it for a while before dismissing it as being wrong.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by scottrnelson View Post
It seems that you are going to stick to your opinion no matter what...

You ought to try it for a while before dismissing it as being wrong.
Ah, sorry, didn't properly recognize you for the troll you are.

Undoubtably, having read a book you are a true master of all.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:55 AM   #24
scottrnelson
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Originally Posted by foxtrapper View Post
Undoubtably, having read a book you are a true master of all.
Having read many books (I only mentioned the best one) and practiced it for nearly a decade after several more decades of trying it the other way.

I can see that this discussion will not make any further progress, at least between you and me, so let's agree to let it rest, okay?
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:13 AM   #25
dwoodward
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Originally Posted by foxtrapper View Post
Setting up for the next corner is relevant only when the next corner is known, and it's within the window of effect.
Until the next corner is known, you shouldn't be picking an apex or exit for the corner you're in.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:02 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
The proper line is "outside-inside-entrance of next corner".
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:57 AM   #27
RRVT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottrnelson View Post
One of the best riding tips that I picked up from reading Proficient Motorcycling By David L. Hough, is to do all braking before starting the corner, enter the corner from the outer edge of the lane, and tighten up to the inside at the end of the turn.
If my memory servers me right, in that same book he talks about this 12 second rule - something like If you cannot see 12 seconds ahead of you, its time to slow down. The reasoning is that 12 seconds gives you enough time to stop at high speeds, anything less and you may not have enough time.

I've been going by that rule for the last few years and it worked well for me. I always had enough time to break when something unexpected appeared around a corner. I've encountered gravel/mud washed up on the road by a thunderstorm, a turning truck, fallen tree, a kid crossing on a bicycle. I always had plenty of time to react and stop.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:16 PM   #28
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I love the unexpected surpises. They get the blood flowing and make for a more fun and engaging ride.
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Old 05-12-2013, 05:28 PM   #29
filmfan
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I love the unexpected surpises. They get the blood flowing and make for a more fun and engaging ride.
What about the expected surprises, those too?
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Old 05-20-2013, 07:43 AM   #30
DavidBanner
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part of the problem is that "proper" cornering technique FOR RACING has [unfortunately] become synonymous in the motorcycle marketplace with cornering technique in all situations. i.e. "if you're a good rider, you can get your knee down" and "you coulda gone faster through that corner, look at those chicken strips" and "just have to lean more."

the racing technique/line/whatever has a goal of pure speed. street strategies have entirely different concerns. those of you who say "i wouldn't ride faster than the space i can see" aren't going as fast as you can...and that's because you understand that it's better to trade speed for safety out on the road.

on the track, you essentially trade ALL of your safety for the extra speed and hope that the corner workers aren't falling asleep and that your fellow racers aren't crashing in front of you. that makes me a little uncomfortable as a proposition.

once i came to terms with the fact that many of those classes/books teaching "proper cornering technique" were primarily concerned with "speed speed speed"...it became easier to take it easy and i didn't feel like i was missing out. street riding is ALL (and ONLY) about making it home in one piece. i'll still hang it out, but only in places i have scouted and sighted first...like roundabouts :-)
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