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Old 05-15-2013, 02:28 PM   #931
JNRobert
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Originally Posted by HarveyMushman View Post
There is a crucial difference between working right up to the performance limit of a cutting edge tire, and working within the artificial confines of a tire designed to fail. Then there is the folly of teams spending billions to develop machines capable of incredible performance only to be hobbled by a tire gimmick. Why this is lost on a population that claims to love the technical aspect of F1 confuses the hell out of me.
I don't get it either.

The "races are won by the least slowest car" is just sophistry to me
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:58 PM   #932
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I don't get it either.

The "races are won by the least slowest car" is just sophistry to me
Some of us get it because we looked at actual data from this year and previous years. The hard, cold numbers show race speeds through 5 races this season are statistically no different than for the same races the previous three seasons.
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:03 PM   #933
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Some of us get it because we looked at actual data from this year and previous years. The hard, cold numbers show race speeds through 5 races this season are statistically no different than for the same races the previous three seasons.
And? Are we to expect speeds to increase every season? Where would that end?

Some (Lotus/Renault) figured out how to achieve a competitive balance between the car/tires and speed. Others (Red Bull) seem to have gone after speed with no thought to the limiting influence of tires.

Complaints about rubber is nothing new. Slicks to grooved, remember those days? And reference Spain and passing, there were some great passes on the track, great race!
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:29 PM   #934
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And? Are we to expect speeds to increase every season? Where would that end?

Some (Lotus/Renault) figured out how to achieve a competitive balance between the car/tires and speed. Others (Red Bull) seem to have gone after speed with no thought to the limiting influence of tires.

Complaints about rubber is nothing new. Slicks to grooved, remember those days? And reference Spain and passing, there were some great passes on the track, great race!
I agree with you. I was countering the folks who seem to think the tires this season have dramatically slowed the cars.
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Old 05-15-2013, 06:06 PM   #935
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I agree with you. I was countering the folks who seem to think the tires this season have dramatically slowed the cars.
Ooohhhhh. Sorry.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:00 PM   #936
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Some of us get it because we looked at actual data from this year and previous years. The hard, cold numbers show race speeds through 5 races this season are statistically no different than for the same races the previous three seasons.
You're missing the point, by a large margin.

p.s. It's F1 not baseball.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:33 PM   #937
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You're missing the point, by a large margin.

p.s. It's F1 not baseball.
I don't think Ferrari missed the point. Flat out all the way.

I have no idea why everyone's upset about 4 pit stops. Baffles me.
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Old 05-16-2013, 02:56 AM   #938
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I don't think Ferrari missed the point. Flat out all the way.
Flat out, or just less slow than the others? Alonso's fastest lap was 5 seconds slower than his qualifying time. We'll just have to wonder by how much his qualifying time was hobbled.

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I have no idea why everyone's upset about 4 pit stops. Baffles me.
I'm not, per se. I give credit to Ferrari for using an aggressive strategy when others are cruising and complaining they "can't go any slower."
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:41 AM   #939
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Flat out, or just less slow than the others? Alonso's fastest lap was 5 seconds slower than his qualifying time. We'll just have to wonder by how much his qualifying time was hobbled.

hmmm Q3, empty gas tank, fresh tires, no consideration of "finishing"
versus the race, where the whole field was running 1:26's

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Old 05-16-2013, 09:09 AM   #940
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Flat out, or just less slow than the others? Alonso's fastest lap was 5 seconds slower than his qualifying time. We'll just have to wonder by how much his qualifying time was hobbled.
In 2011 at the same track, fast lap was 6 seconds slower than fast qualifying. Do we blame the tires in 2011 as well?

I know you know better than this, Tim. You've forgotten more than I'll ever know about racing.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:30 AM   #941
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http://sports.yahoo.com/news/honda-r...130124027.html

Is this old news? Back for more failure?

it's official today.
Their last go-round was weak, but they've certainly had plenty of F1 success in other eras.
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Old 05-16-2013, 12:26 PM   #942
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That fastest cars, the best drivers, but certainly not the best tires!?
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Old 05-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #943
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That fastest cars, the best drivers, but certainly not the best tires!?
How would you define the word "best"?

I'm trying to think of a scenario in F1 in which everyone -- each and every team -- would agree that the tire supplier is providing the "best" tire.

I can't do it. Can you?
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Old 05-16-2013, 02:57 PM   #944
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How would you define the word "best"?

I'm trying to think of a scenario in F1 in which everyone -- each and every team -- would agree that the tire supplier is providing the "best" tire.

I can't do it. Can you?
If you're instructed to build a tire that degrades within a dozen laps when you're capable of building one that will last most of the race at lap record pace, then yes, that's a pretty good definition. We're not talking here about a custom tire that works only with one car (Schmacher and Ferrari). It seems reasonable to have a control tire to average out across all teams. But it shouldn't be one where we have the risible formulation that the fastest slow team won.
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:22 PM   #945
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How would you define the word "best"?

I'm trying to think of a scenario in F1 in which everyone -- each and every team -- would agree that the tire supplier is providing the "best" tire.

I can't do it. Can you?
It is a fact Pirelli was ordered to provide a shit tire, no? For the "show?" I'm asking here.
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