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Old 05-23-2013, 08:35 AM   #61
cliffy109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
The riders were on a nice BMW, that's about as grown up and responsible as it gets.

So I'm not the only one wondering about the Kalif no CCW laws.
In CA, it depends entirely on the sherrif in the county in which one lives. In most areas, it is next to impossible. In more rural counties, it isn't hard at all, although it often requires demonstrating range proficiency with each gun you want to list on your permit.

Legality of concealed carry aside, there is a real problem with pulling a gun in traffic. You are only allowed to pull a gun if a jury of your peers would agree that you had a reasonable fear of mortal danger. Some states also require that you make an effort to retreat and I don't know if CA is one of those states or not.

Even without the "duty to retreat", there is a tactical problem in that when you stop to pull your gun, the threat has likely continued driving on. You can not pursue that threat and still be viewed as a victim. Shooting while moving has other legal implications since you are responsible for the destination of each one of your shots. Whether on a bike or in a car, you have better tactical and legal options than firing to or from a moving vehicle.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:56 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Martin_404 View Post
If I would catch the guy who runs me of the road when I'm on a bike, I'll be the one who will most likely go to jail, after I finish with him.
It is then up to the jurge to determine the right punishement for me.

When I have done my time I would like to get a second chance in life.
I can not disagree more, with the public naming and shaming that apparently is concidered perfectly normal in the US.

This guy will never get a normal job and whatever honest live be builds-up after he has served his time, will always be ruined when people around him at some point unavoidably get confronted with his past. (internet will only get worst that way in the future)
I think the guy is a real dick that should be punished very hard, but when that is over, it should be over.
Otherwise you are intentionally creating an unavoidable downward spiral in a persons life, that can result in nothing but trouble for anyone around him.
(like that little boy in the back seat)
I agree for the most part. I, for one, am normally against law suits and think they should only be used as a last resort.

On the other hand, who is supposed to pay for all the medical bills the two riders will receive once the insurance runs out? Not only that, but who is to pay for all the wages lost do to the mishap? And the trauma inflicted on the riders?

Leave all the mental anguish/trauma out of it. Just look at it on a monetary basis.

Bike
Medical Bills for two people (This could be by far the biggest cost.)
Lost Wages for two people (Maybe even a Job, depending on the employer.)

That's just the three things off the top of my head that I can think of and I am sure there is more than that. I bet insurance would cover, maybe a third of that, maybe a little more.

Are you saying the riders, in this case, should be responsible and have to pay these debts.

I understand they may of had their part in the "exchange of words", but they did not use deadly force and then flee the seen.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:33 AM   #63
eatpasta
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Originally Posted by Martin_404 View Post
I think the guy is a real dick that should be punished very hard, but when that is over, it should be over.
Otherwise you are intentionally creating an unavoidable downward spiral in a persons life, that can result in nothing but trouble for anyone around him.
We are not creating anything for this assclown, he has created his own downward spiral that he has been perpetrating for years. This most recent incident we are only aware of because he happened to get caught. How many times has he pulled crap like this and NOT gotten caught? In my experience with people like this, they are masters at getting away with all kinds of underhanded crap by the time they get to 4h grade.
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:07 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by jackflash View Post
I agree for the most part. I, for one, am normally against law suits and think they should only be used as a last resort.

On the other hand, who is supposed to pay for all the medical bills the two riders will receive once the insurance runs out? Not only that, but who is to pay for all the wages lost do to the mishap? And the trauma inflicted on the riders?

Leave all the mental anguish/trauma out of it. Just look at it on a monetary basis.

Bike
Medical Bills for two people (This could be by far the biggest cost.)
Lost Wages for two people (Maybe even a Job, depending on the employer.)

That's just the three things off the top of my head that I can think of and I am sure there is more than that. I bet insurance would cover, maybe a third of that, maybe a little more.

Are you saying the riders, in this case, should be responsible and have to pay these debts.

I understand they may of had their part in the "exchange of words", but they did not use deadly force and then flee the seen.
I agree that the prick should pay all costs involved.
(not what my post was about, but I do not think you meant thast either)

I am always amazed at the height of US law suits, but after reading this and knowing a little bit about US income/medical insurance issues, I'm starting to understand.

In my country basic healthcare insurance is mandetory and it covers all regular medical bills indefinetlly. (not aroma threatment etc. but all the normal stuff)
Also your emplorer and the goverment keep paying your regular (former) wages for up to 2 years, after which you go into regular social welfare. (enough to live)

As a result of this, here, that guy would barely have to pay for any of the actual damage he caused and all of it will fall on taxpayers.
Income- and other taxes are a lot higher here and healthinsurance cost are expected to get out of hand soon. (more and more old people etc.)


Here jurges could also be a bit more generous about awarding mental anguish/trauma claims (here $10.000 for that would already be very high) but from what I hear US claims can get a bit extreme to the other side of the scale.
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Old 05-23-2013, 02:44 PM   #65
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Some Good News

The rider and his passenger were not too badly injured in the crash. They were both at the dealership yesterday, hopefully discussing their replacement bike.
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:37 PM   #66
eatpasta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YetiGS View Post
The rider and his passenger were not too badly injured in the crash. They were both at the dealership yesterday, hopefully discussing their replacement bike.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burnszilla
I was SO high, I could have hunted duck with a rake
Quote:
Originally Posted by VxZeroKnots View Post
MX stuff isn't my cup of tea, but falling down the side of a mountain is
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:32 PM   #67
Andyvh1959
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If this road vermin gets off easy, and I wouldn't doubt that he does, at the very least the courts should apply some method of a federal, all states life-time license ban, period. No fail, no arguement.

If he is mentally unstable as reported, and gets off because of it he simply should not qualify for a license for anything but a bicycle. Not everyone is entitled to a license just beacuse they are of age. Oh, and for this POS, no guns, ever, in any form. Without a car his next weapon of choice would be a gun.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:04 PM   #68
ttpete
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Originally Posted by Andyvh1959 View Post
If this road vermin gets off easy, and I wouldn't doubt that he does, at the very least the courts should apply some method of a federal, all states life-time license ban, period. No fail, no arguement.

If he is mentally unstable as reported, and gets off because of it he simply should not qualify for a license for anything but a bicycle. Not everyone is entitled to a license just beacuse they are of age. Oh, and for this POS, no guns, ever, in any form. Without a car his next weapon of choice would be a gun.
Thr gun thing is moot, really. Convicted felons can't own firearms.
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Old 05-23-2013, 05:25 PM   #69
Onederer
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Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Thr gun thing is moot, really. Convicted felons can't own firearms.
Convicted felons can't LEGALLY own firearms.

Felons certainly own firearms just as people with multiple DWI's and fatalities on their driving record continue to drive, even without a license.

Our society has been indoctrinated to not change unless change is forced upon them. There is no reward for simply being a good person and considering others; only punishment for not obeying the law.

"Click It or Ticket"
"Drive Sober or Get Pulled Over"
"Obey the Sign or Pay the Fine"









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Old 05-23-2013, 06:12 PM   #70
ttpete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onederer View Post
Convicted felons can't LEGALLY own firearms.

Felons certainly own firearms just as people with multiple DWI's and fatalities on their driving record continue to drive, even without a license.

Our society has been indoctrinated to not change unless change is forced upon them. There is no reward for simply being a good person and considering others; only punishment for not obeying the law.

"Click It or Ticket"
"Drive Sober or Get Pulled Over"
"Obey the Sign or Pay the Fine"









We all know that. I don't think very many here just fell off the turnip truck.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:17 PM   #71
Kafn8td
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Originally Posted by Valker View Post
It is much easier to take out a radiator than a person. Most cars will stop almost immediately without coolant.
Every year we have a raffle where we drain the oil and coolant out of a car And then rev it to about 4500 until it seizes or blows up. Last year was a neon that lasted over 9 minutes!
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:20 PM   #72
Foot dragger
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Originally Posted by YetiGS View Post
It would be nice to have that option, but I feel pretty safe saying, I seriously doubt he could have pulled and fired while riding. (Not to mention the legal ramifications of shooting someone who threatened you in traffic...)

Once they got hit, I am positive he wouldn't have been able to pull, much less accurately shoot.

Don't get me wrong, I would be all for it, but it's just not realistic in this scenario.
Of COURSE a running gun battle in traffic could have fixed everything,like always. Were all Dirty Harry and all bullets go just where we want.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:35 PM   #73
YetiGS
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
Of COURSE a running gun battle in traffic could have fixed everything,like always. Were all Dirty Harry and all bullets go just where we want.
I assume you meant to quote the guy I was quoting.
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Old 05-23-2013, 07:03 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by YetiGS View Post
The rider and his passenger were not too badly injured in the crash. They were both at the dealership yesterday, hopefully discussing their replacement bike.




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Old 05-24-2013, 12:19 PM   #75
dwoodward
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ASSuming the rider can't draw a handgun ASSUmes two things:
1) The rider is right handed (fairly safe bet);
2) That a K16GT doesn't have cruise control.

As for a BMW rider being responsible because he can afford a BMW... he got taken out by an arguably more expensive BMW car.
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