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Old 05-28-2013, 10:21 AM   #2536
Drif10
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I'd bet that the motors aren't the same. Were it me, I'd have them tuned different to match track requirements. Use the ones appropriate where needed.
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Old 05-28-2013, 10:28 AM   #2537
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I wonder if maybe they are spread across at least 2 generations of chassis?
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:36 PM   #2538
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I wonder if maybe they are spread across at least 2 generations of chassis?
Engine mounting points are the same on all chassis. Flex controlled by material thickness.
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:37 PM   #2539
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
Engine mounting points are the same on all chassis. Flex controlled by material thickness.
I meant that might be the reason for having 3 engines in rotation; 2 in one gen chassis and 1 on another gen. I do believe Jorge and Vale have been switching back and forth a lot, unsure of which works best.

I think you mentioned they each prefer a different chassis.
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Old 05-28-2013, 03:55 PM   #2540
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Originally Posted by Drif10 View Post
I'd bet that the motors aren't the same. Were it me, I'd have them tuned different to match track requirements. Use the ones appropriate where needed.
for the most part, tuning can all be done with electronics, so the basic engines can be made the same. when you have 260+ HP, it's ALL about how the electronics control the engine.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:36 PM   #2541
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for the most part, tuning can all be done with electronics, so the basic engines can be made the same. when you have 260+ HP, it's ALL about how the electronics control the engine.
From what I understand they use GPS or some tech so that the electroncis know where the bike is on the track. The electronics control the bike not only for the track but for a specific corner. I think there was a racer last year who's bike 'got lost' and they had a difficult time riding after that.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:03 PM   #2542
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for the most part, tuning can all be done with electronics, so the basic engines can be made the same. when you have 260+ HP, it's ALL about how the electronics control the engine.
Agree, but as you said 'for the most part'. I wonder at having different things like flywheel weights (for example) and how something like that would affect how the bike comes off corners. I realize that my example is highly simplistic compared to the alien magic smoke harnessed by a 213V, but it seems to make sense that there would be build/design factors that would compliment different tracks.

Plus, on the r&d side of things, testing different versions of this widget or that under race conditions would be added value.

Yes, they want to win championships. But as, or maybe even of more importance, is the return of investment on technologies developed.


I'd love to be a fly on the wall to find out what really goes on, why, and what they gain from it.

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Old 05-28-2013, 05:23 PM   #2543
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From what I understand they use GPS or some tech so that the electroncis know where the bike is on the track. The electronics control the bike not only for the track but for a specific corner. I think there was a racer last year who's bike 'got lost' and they had a difficult time riding after that.
wouldn't that suck!!!!
I've heard about that type of traction control and such, no doubt it's in use, and it wouldn't be that difficult to do with the technology available.
I still think the engines are about the same, be too hard to judge when and where certain engines would be used, and if you lose one early, then the entire season could be shook up because you had to use engine tuned for tracks a,b,c, instead of the one tuned for tracks d,e, and f.
just seems like it wouldn't be worth chancing.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:09 PM   #2544
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wouldn't that suck!!!!
I've heard about that type of traction control and such, no doubt it's in use, and it wouldn't be that difficult to do with the technology available.
I still think the engines are about the same, be too hard to judge when and where certain engines would be used, and if you lose one early, then the entire season could be shook up because you had to use engine tuned for tracks a,b,c, instead of the one tuned for tracks d,e, and f.
just seems like it wouldn't be worth chancing.
GP bikes are like nothing else. I was watching Lorenzo at Laguna a few years back and he was doing a practice start between turns 4 and 5. He totally binned it with way too much throttle into turn 5. Looked like something I would do. His excuse was that the traction control doesn't kick in that fast after a start and entered the corner with the same throttle that he always did.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:26 PM   #2545
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From what I understand they use GPS or some tech so that the electroncis know where the bike is on the track. The electronics control the bike not only for the track but for a specific corner. I think there was a racer last year who's bike 'got lost' and they had a difficult time riding after that.
I think that was Lorenzo at Mugello QP.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101194
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:46 PM   #2546
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I think it was Nicky,but I don't remember the track...
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:16 PM   #2547
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I think it was Nicky,but I don't remember the track...
Estoril?

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/d...team%20estoril

Ducati isn't too circumspect about describing the exact nature of the problem.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:56 PM   #2548
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It was definitely Nicky...Poor bastard.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:01 AM   #2549
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Originally Posted by mdubya View Post
I meant that might be the reason for having 3 engines in rotation; 2 in one gen chassis and 1 on another gen. I do believe Jorge and Vale have been switching back and forth a lot, unsure of which works best.

I think you mentioned they each prefer a different chassis.
Yes, Rossi and Lorenzo prefer different chassis, but they both have two bikes using the chassis they prefer. Chassis testing usually gets done at tests rather than race weekends, as two 45 minute sessions, often with different weather, makes it tough to evaluate properly and to do back-to-back testing.

It's an interesting idea to rotate engines in chassis, but with just 5 engines this season, there are more important considerations. Rumor in Spain is that Yamaha is having problems with its engine, after Lorenzo had a drop in power, and now they've detuned to keep the engines from blowing up. This does not bode well for either Mugello, or the championship.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:05 AM   #2550
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Originally Posted by Drif10 View Post
Agree, but as you said 'for the most part'. I wonder at having different things like flywheel weights (for example) and how something like that would affect how the bike comes off corners. I realize that my example is highly simplistic compared to the alien magic smoke harnessed by a 213V, but it seems to make sense that there would be build/design factors that would compliment different tracks.

Plus, on the r&d side of things, testing different versions of this widget or that under race conditions would be added value.

Yes, they want to win championships. But as, or maybe even of more importance, is the return of investment on technologies developed.


I'd love to be a fly on the wall to find out what really goes on, why, and what they gain from it.

I believe they used to do that in the days of 500cc two strokes, when there was less electronic interference and engines could be rebuilt in between races (or even in between sessions). But two factors prevent that now. First, they only have five sealed engines to last a year, and so having a different spec engine to suit one track would cause too many problems at other tracks. And if that engine blows, then you lose any potential advantage anyway. Secondly, the possibilities offered by electronics and chassis set up is so much bigger that it is quicker and easier to tweak a few settings. Requires a lot less testing too. Changing and testing settings is 10 seconds and a few laps, changing and testing a different crank weight, well, you can imagine it's a little bit more time consuming.
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