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Old 05-28-2013, 06:28 PM   #451
ebrabaek OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
The dynojet people seem to think that you could just pick one pipe.

I'm borrowing a PC III USB (no Autotune) and planning to run it in my second bung to see how it compares to the LC-1. Should have some data by the time you're back.

Safe travels.
I don't think I would just do one pipe.... But that's just me. Be interesting how the PC-3 fares. Looking forward to the LC-1 results.
Thanks.
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Old 05-29-2013, 03:45 AM   #452
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Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
I don't think I would just do one pipe.... But that's just me. Be interesting how the PC-3 fares. Looking forward to the LC-1 results.
Thanks.
Here's some good light reading on the LC-1 performance: Integrated Wideband O2 Sensor.

Lately what I've been doing is installing to-be-tested sensors in my second bung (narrowband, shifted-narrowband, and pre-set Wideband) letting the test sensor drive the Motronic in Closed Loop and then using the LC-1 to collect and record data showing how the test sensor performs.

I'm very interested in the PC III USB since it has a native ability to run in Closed Loop (unlike every other Power Commander which are only Open Loop). I'm curious to see whether Dynojet has provided the correct analog needs of the dual-spark 1150.

After that I may try and adapt a PC V with Autotune and see what it comes up with for the 1150. There's no reason, with a stock exhaust (no air reversion issues) why you couldn't run a PCV for mapping and an LC-1 for Closed Loop. To keep them from fighting you'd just need to set up the PCV to not Autotune in the Closed Loop area; or you could Autotune while Open Loop, hand tweak the factors so there were no big changes cell-to-cell (actually you should do this as some point) and then stop Autotuning and run Closed Loop. This would mean one could remap for a custom exhaust but not lose the many benefits of Closed Loop.

After resolving air-reversion on the F800, it would be interesting to see the effect that the richer (and in some cases leaner, e.g. WOT) AFR targets you have set having on Spark Advance. When you get your GS-911 we could work that out if you wanted.

RB

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Old 05-29-2013, 05:37 AM   #453
ebrabaek OP
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
Here's some good light reading on the LC-1 performance: Integrated Wideband O2 Sensor.

Lately what I've been doing is installing to-be-tested sensors in my second bung (narrowband, shifted-narrowband, and pre-set Wideband) letting the test sensor drive the Motronic in Closed Loop and then using the LC-1 to collect and record data showing how the test sensor performs.

I'm very interested in the PC III USB since it has a native ability to run in Closed Loop (unlike every other Power Commander which are only Open Loop). I'm curious to see whether Dynojet has provided the correct analog needs of the dual-spark 1150.

After that I may try and adapt a PC V with Autotune and see what it comes up with for the 1150. There's no reason, with a stock exhaust (no air reversion issues) why you couldn't run a PCV for mapping and an LC-1 for Closed Loop. To keep them from fighting you'd just need to set up the PCV to not Autotune in the Closed Loop area; or you could Autotune while Open Loop, hand tweak the factors so there were no big changes cell-to-cell (actually you should do this as some point) and then stop Autotuning and run Closed Loop. This would mean one could remap for a custom exhaust but not lose the many benefits of Closed Loop.

After resolving air-reversion on the F800, it would be interesting to see the effect that the richer (and in some cases leaner, e.g. WOT) AFR targets you have set having on Spark Advance. When you get your GS-911 we could work that out if you wanted.

RB
Yeppers Roger, I will look into getting the GS-911 after I get back stateside. If you prefer you can easily set up the PC-5/AT to run open or closed in your own combo, but I guess, at some point, I really need to know what on earth the BMS-K is doing under all those operations..... Starting to think that DJ did not pour a lot of effort in to the PC-5 app for the 8GS. Most of the custom ability is not present. Most importantly is the spark advance. I could live without the water collant temp, and gear, but the spark.....Grrrrrrr..... As Gaspare found out.... that was needed, in a big way, or so it seemed.
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:55 AM   #454
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As promised, last week Terry got out and did some test riding to see what the BMSK doees when you disconnect an O2 sensor.

Because he rides an R1200GSA which also uses a BMSK, as does the F800, but with two O2 sensors, he was able to directly compare the fueling delivered from side by side cylinders operating under the same conditions. And because he has dual LC-1s he was able to log detailed AFR information in realtime.

In my Wideband O2 thread in the Boxer forum I'm going to post a lot of additional detail. But here is a chart that shows the AFR differences between his left and right cylinders, one running Closed Loop (purple) with an O2 sensor connected, the other running Open Loop (black).

At the beginning of the chart on the left side the motorcycle is idling. Looking at the Black Line #2 with the disconnected O2 sensor, it appears that it is running steady (and after a BMSK reset) but a lot richer. However, as he drives off you can see that the black line fluctuates about 12-15% while that #1 cylinder with its O2 connected holds tightly to the target AFR and varies +/-3% (6% total).

(You can see the black and purple cylinders start to converge as the BMSK with twin O2 sensors pulls off a clever feat: it uses data from the connected cylinder to bring the disconnected cylinder into a partial alignment. When Terry and I first saw this, it was a big, WOW!)

The large fluctuation of the black line is consistent with my measurements on the R1150 in Open Loop and should be representative of the fueling data being sent to the Power Commander connected to the BMSK of the F800. I can't think of a reason why it would be different.

The thing I wondered since there appears to be multiple AFRs for any given RPM on the disconnected cylinder (the fluctuation being seen) how does the PC V figure out which AFR it puts into the Trim table? It seems likely that this varies depending on the exact moment the data is taken.

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Old 06-05-2013, 09:12 AM   #455
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Just to wrap things up, here are some of the things an F800 does (not the dual O2 stuff though), but doesn't do when a PC V is attached, after the O2 sensor is disconnected. BMSK Functions.
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:05 PM   #456
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So, I finbally installed my PCV + AT - how do I get this right?

Hi guys!

As there are hundreds of posts and threads regarding the subject - I would be extremely grateful for a short summary of how to get this right from all you pro's! I read as much as I could, but there are many ideas and thoughts....

I've installed the stuff, and plugged the air hole in the vent - #17 in Joel Wismans pics. Default base map from Dynojet for Akra with DBkiller and stock/modded airfilter. The bike starts! My main interest is rideability and eliminating the hop-off effect rather than maximizing Power/torque, but if both are possible, why not!

How do I actually use the PCV and AT, trimming and accept trims?

Did I disable the SAS in the correct way?

Is the Dynojet default map and target AFR:s ok or do you have something better in store?

Most grateful for your thoughts!

Best regards,
Mats
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Old 09-21-2013, 03:33 PM   #457
ebrabaek OP
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Hi guys!

As there are hundreds of posts and threads regarding the subject - I would be extremely grateful for a short summary of how to get this right from all you pro's! I read as much as I could, but there are many ideas and thoughts....

I've installed the stuff, and plugged the air hole in the vent - #17 in Joel Wismans pics. Default base map from Dynojet for Akra with DBkiller and stock/modded airfilter. The bike starts! My main interest is rideability and eliminating the hop-off effect rather than maximizing Power/torque, but if both are possible, why not!

How do I actually use the PCV and AT, trimming and accept trims?

Did I disable the SAS in the correct way?

Is the Dynojet default map and target AFR:s ok or do you have something better in store?

Most grateful for your thoughts!

Best regards,
Mats
Well.... how is it riding...... ??????
I will put this in simple terms. Load a zero map with a trim off idle to correct for the idle hop. I think 5% is plenty. Then load anything from 13.2 to 13.8 in your AFR table, then go ride. When I disconnected my SAS my bike ran like crap. No matter of what I did, the outcome was bad. I have left the SAS connected, as it is not active during heavy open throttle. Nobody have produced any evidence that the SAS should be disconnected on the 8GS. Your best bet is to try it with and without, and see what you like. I am about to go clear across with a 13.8 AFR. I have been talking with a fellow inmate, who kept accepting trims, and the end results were bad, and after he restored a zero map, his bike jumped back to life, and he is now happy again. The PC-5/AT is NOT a perfect solution. There are several items that DJ should have covered better. They overcharge for their box, and several other things. But what it will do is produce more power on your bike, and correct the off idle hop. Right now, imho, there is nothing out there that offers a better solution.
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Old 09-21-2013, 05:41 PM   #458
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Originally Posted by ebrabaek View Post
Well.... how is it riding...... ??????
I will put this in simple terms. Load a zero map with a trim off idle to correct for the idle hop. I think 5% is plenty. Then load anything from 13.2 to 13.8 in your AFR table, then go ride. When I disconnected my SAS my bike ran like crap. No matter of what I did, the outcome was bad. I have left the SAS connected, as it is not active during heavy open throttle. Nobody have produced any evidence that the SAS should be disconnected on the 8GS. Your best bet is to try it with and without, and see what you like. I am about to go clear across with a 13.8 AFR. I have been talking with a fellow inmate, who kept accepting trims, and the end results were bad, and after he restored a zero map, his bike jumped back to life, and he is now happy again. The PC-5/AT is NOT a perfect solution. There are several items that DJ should have covered better. They overcharge for their box, and several other things. But what it will do is produce more power on your bike, and correct the off idle hop. Right now, imho, there is nothing out there that offers a better solution.
Thanks a bunch!

I didn't have the time to go for a ride - a lot of other stuff was serviced too! Premiere will be tomorrow.

Idle hop fixed and some more hp will be good enough!

If I understand you correctly:
- I should open up the plugged air inlet.
- Don't trim via the AT
- Load the PCV with a zero-map that has like 5% extra Below 2000 or so.

Maybe disconnect the AT completely, if it doesn't work anyway?

Most grateful!
Mats P.
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Old 09-21-2013, 06:32 PM   #459
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Thanks a bunch!

I didn't have the time to go for a ride - a lot of other stuff was serviced too! Premiere will be tomorrow.

Idle hop fixed and some more hp will be good enough!

If I understand you correctly:
- I should open up the plugged air inlet.
In all practical/theoretical app, the SAS ( secondary air system) Should be eliminated, but as I tried mine, it ran like crap, even after several hundred km's. So mine is left open.

- Don't trim via the AT
Yes.....Set the AFR to 13.2-13.8 which ever you feel like. I think 13.8 is a good mix. But mine is curently sitting at 13.2 for max power.

- Load the PCV with a zero-map that has like 5% extra Below 2000 or so.
I think the first one is 1350 rpm.... I just put in 5% in those few block's, and it took care of the off idle hop.

Maybe disconnect the AT completely, if it doesn't work anyway?
No... The AT is key here. Leave it set with the AFR's as above, But remember to enable it with your laptop, and check the green light for operation above 2% throttle.

Most grateful!
Mats P.
Hej paa dej....
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:16 AM   #460
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Tack Erling!

Jag provar idag!

Edit: The idle-hop fix. Checked your Youtube-video, and the table FUEL. U seem to add from 1250 to 4250 rpm in column 2% and from 1250 to 5250 in the 5% column. I should edit this manually and increase from zero to like 5, in all those cells? Or do I adjust target AFR for the same cells?

Best regards,
in a rainy Stockholm
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mapa63 screwed with this post 09-22-2013 at 02:19 AM
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:27 AM   #461
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Testrunning....

Didn't touch DJ:s map, Euro, Akra+Db, stock/modded air. Runs good so far, good gas response. When running really slow, low speed manouvering, the engine stalls MUCH easier than it used to. Seems I got like -7 from the AT. Will drive some more and se how this develops. Fun!
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:10 AM   #462
ebrabaek OP
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Jag provar idag!

Edit: The idle-hop fix. Checked your Youtube-video, and the table FUEL. U seem to add from 1250 to 4250 rpm in column 2% and from 1250 to 5250 in the 5% column. I should edit this manually and increase from zero to like 5, in all those cells? Or do I adjust target AFR for the same cells?

Best regards,
in a rainy Stockholm
I would edit them in the base map, as I have it. The AT will not come online until 2% throttle, and you are trying to correct the stock fueling right off idle, as the injectors have been closed after throttle let off. I found that the map you see on my you tube video, is very effective in canceling the off idle hop.
It might be raining in Stockholm, but you have all the beautiful food....
Held og lykke...
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:15 AM   #463
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Didn't touch DJ:s map, Euro, Akra+Db, stock/modded air. Runs good so far, good gas response. When running really slow, low speed manouvering, the engine stalls MUCH easier than it used to. Seems I got like -7 from the AT. Will drive some more and se how this develops. Fun!
The reason I did not like the maps from DJ, is that each bike are different, and I wanted to focus on the AT unit, and let the AT do it's job. On a second note, I really wanted to see what % was needed over stock fueling. The "zero map" has worked really great for me. You should not have any stalling issues high or low rpm. On the contrary, my idle in first, or second gear is now phenomenal. There was no way I could put the bike in first, and let it ride @ idle. It would hop and dance, and eventually stall. Now, I can ride all day long.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:30 AM   #464
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In one word - SUCCESS!!!

Been riding all day, really provocative driving. Slow, fast, low revs, high revs, even driving uphill in idle speed in 1st and 2d gear. Really pushing the throttle to extreme pisitions. It doesn't stall at all anymore and is ten times easier to drive at idle speed. Been accepting trims in 30-60 minute intervals.

This is easily the best upgrade I've done so far. More torque, hp and much easier to drive and control. It even wheelies with ease! :- D

My only regret is hesitating so long before doing this. Will uppload table and map for further analysis from U pro's!

Best regards,
Mats

Ps. Rain stopped, all roads dry and sun the last couple if hours. 15 degrees C.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:04 PM   #465
ebrabaek OP
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Originally Posted by mapa63 View Post
Been riding all day, really provocative driving. Slow, fast, low revs, high revs, even driving uphill in idle speed in 1st and 2d gear. Really pushing the throttle to extreme pisitions. It doesn't stall at all anymore and is ten times easier to drive at idle speed. Been accepting trims in 30-60 minute intervals.

This is easily the best upgrade I've done so far. More torque, hp and much easier to drive and control. It even wheelies with ease! :- D

My only regret is hesitating so long before doing this. Will uppload table and map for further analysis from U pro's!

Best regards,
Mats

Ps. Rain stopped, all roads dry and sun the last couple if hours. 15 degrees C.
Awesome...... Remember to save each of the base maps, before accepting trims, so you always can go back to a prior map, if you do not like the new one. It does bring the bike to life...... Extra Aquavit for you tonight.....
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