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Old 05-29-2013, 04:19 AM   #31
drc42
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+1 on Charlie's early notice comment. I also need a lot of notice to schedule time off work. Also agree on camping next to the bike. In Mex last year i spent too much time just trying to locate my gear and hotel. If (when) I roll into the bivouac late at night want to be able to find my crap!

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Old 05-29-2013, 08:56 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by drc42 View Post
+1 on Charlie's early notice comment. I also need a lot of notice to schedule time off work. Also agree on camping next to the bike. In Mex last year i spent too much time just trying to locate my gear and hotel. If (when) I roll into the bivouac late at night want to be able to find my crap!

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Old 05-29-2013, 09:22 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by drc42 View Post
Also agree on camping next to the bike.
We camped out there on the last prerun. While setting up camp, a big scorpion ran out from under my stuff. The next day a local showed me a baby rattlesnake he had just killed near the bivouac area. Fortunately we slept well off the ground in the prerun support rig!

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Old 05-30-2013, 03:33 PM   #34
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Scott,

Make it 4 the first year to make it easy, that is still a week of time for most.

6 hours for fast, 10 for slow riders. Tough on distance which also breaks bikes, too tough on terrain (1st gear stuff) isn't for big bike rally. Sand dunes are easy, BTW.

Just make the navigation standard and don't spin people around like on practice rallies. The goofiness will just cause following and make it difficult for those that can navigate to navigate away from a follower.

You should practice before you go to an event, or at least that is how I look at it. Even HP isn't difficult, its just knowing a compass heading and mileage? Right?

Bivouac, but showers are nice too.

Good luck on this, seems like there is plenty of interest when people are typing but come time to put up and show up, just the core come out.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:21 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by j lewis View Post
.

Good luck on this, seems like there is plenty of interest when people are typing but come time to put up and show up, just the core come out.

+1
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:42 PM   #36
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Sand dunes are easy, BTW.
Sometimes yes, sometimes not so much. This is from our first prerun. Surface was good, but put some weight on it and things changed! Almost got suck there again in the 4WD on the second trip.



Below, an image of a 1 mile section from one of the stages. Can you see the outline image of the devil coming out of those ripples?

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Old 06-04-2013, 10:52 PM   #37
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I’m working on a plan for a new cross-country rally in Northern Mexico, currently named the Diabolical Rally. It's a big-time real race, not another of my typical practice/training rides. I’m trying to decide a number of things. What do you want in a rally? What are your thoughts and opinions on these questions?

1. How many days of racing would you like? Remember there’s also a registration/tech day ahead of the first race day, and probably a half day after the final race day for awards.
2. How many hours of racing per day (assuming moderate to extremely challenging terrain)?
3. How difficult should the navigation be? Different difficulty on each day?
4. How difficult should the terrain be? Different on each day?
5. Would you like zero, one, or two optional short non-timed “practice” stages to get used to the roadbooks, unique navigation, and unique terrain in the area? Would you come one or two days early to do the practice stage(s)?
6. Would you like to camp in a bivouac, Dakar style, or pay for hotel rooms a ways away from the start/finish?
7. Are paved liaison sections a major pain, or a minor inconvenience? How far is too far if you have a morning and evening paved liaison?
8. Which would you prefer:
...a. Moving bivouac (i.e. Dakar and NORRA Mexican 1000, more liaisons, more taco stands).
...b. Fixed bivouac (stationary camp, no need for chase crew, no long drive back to the border after you're done).
9. Would you be willing to pay 3 times more if it was in Western USA instead of Northern Mexico?
10. What could be done to attract traditional Baja racers without turning it into another SCORE race?

How many of you would want in on the Diabolical Rally (assuming Mexico)? We’re aiming for no limits on entry numbers, but we need to get an idea how much interest there is.
1. 4 days
2. 4-6 for top riders.
3. terrain should dictate.
4. 650 friendly, different - 1st to 5th gear stuff
5. Prologue or qualification perhaps?
6. Camp. <$
7. Liason would be "traditional"
8. 1 day stationary, maybe first day?
9. 3 times of what?
10. Build it, they will come. Or not.
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Mention to HogWild which way the wind is blowing where you're at, wait 20 minutes, and he'll post a picture of the intersection your at and a Google Earth route of how to get there.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:51 AM   #38
DaveRMS
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Scott,

Thanks for working on another awesome set of routes! The rally community in the US owes you a debt of gratitude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
1. How many days of racing would you like? Remember there’s also a registration/tech day ahead of the first race day, and probably a half day after the final race day for awards.
2. How many hours of racing per day (assuming moderate to extremely challenging terrain)?
3. How difficult should the navigation be? Different difficulty on each day?
4. How difficult should the terrain be? Different on each day?
5. Would you like zero, one, or two optional short non-timed “practice” stages to get used to the roadbooks, unique navigation, and unique terrain in the area? Would you come one or two days early to do the practice stage(s)?
6. Would you like to camp in a bivouac, Dakar style, or pay for hotel rooms a ways away from the start/finish?
7. Are paved liaison sections a major pain, or a minor inconvenience? How far is too far if you have a morning and evening paved liaison?
8. Which would you prefer:
...a. Moving bivouac (i.e. Dakar and NORRA Mexican 1000, more liaisons, more taco stands).
...b. Fixed bivouac (stationary camp, no need for chase crew, no long drive back to the border after you're done).
9. Would you be willing to pay 3 times more if it was in Western USA instead of Northern Mexico?
10. What could be done to attract traditional Baja racers without turning it into another SCORE race?

How many of you would want in on the Diabolical Rally (assuming Mexico)? We’re aiming for no limits on entry numbers, but we need to get an idea how much interest there is.
1. 5+ days
2. 8 for an intermediate guy
3. Nav should keep you on your toes. Agree with JL about no extra "tricks".
4. Technical terrain is welcome. But in balance with ticking off long miles. Your typical routes are perfect, IMHO.
5. No extra days. Practice ahead of time with Rally Navigator or other routes.
6. Bivouac. Keeps the social aspect high.
7. Liaisons are part of rally in order to get to the good stuff.
8. Mix of moving and stationary has been nice at other rallies.
9. I'd pay what's fair to rally anywhere, as long as it's awesome!
10. Rally is rally. Cater to the rally crowd. Building awesome rallies is the best way to attract participation from riders in other disciplines.

I'll be there! Thanks again.

Dave
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:25 AM   #39
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Quote:
1. How many days of racing would you like? Remember there’s also a registration/tech day ahead of the first race day, and probably a half day after the final race day for awards.
2. How many hours of racing per day (assuming moderate to extremely challenging terrain)?
3. How difficult should the navigation be? Different difficulty on each day?
4. How difficult should the terrain be? Different on each day?
5. Would you like zero, one, or two optional short non-timed “practice” stages to get used to the roadbooks, unique navigation, and unique terrain in the area? Would you come one or two days early to do the practice stage(s)?
6. Would you like to camp in a bivouac, Dakar style, or pay for hotel rooms a ways away from the start/finish?
7. Are paved liaison sections a major pain, or a minor inconvenience? How far is too far if you have a morning and evening paved liaison?
8. Which would you prefer:
...a. Moving bivouac (i.e. Dakar and NORRA Mexican 1000, more liaisons, more taco stands).
...b. Fixed bivouac (stationary camp, no need for chase crew, no long drive back to the border after you're done).
9. Would you be willing to pay 3 times more if it was in Western USA instead of Northern Mexico?
10. What could be done to attract traditional Baja racers without turning it into another SCORE race?
1)3 days. I think if you want to grow the NA interest you need to make the rallys do-able without huge time commitment.
2) 6 hours for experts, limited 1st gear stuff so big bikes can come
3) make it challenging. I'm not really interested in a tour.
4) Variety is great.
5) Not for me - I'd say let Jimmy or someone else organize more classes at other times to make your prep easier.
6) Cheap camp or bivy I'd say. You may need to offer both though.
7) Whatever it takes to get to a good section of riding
8) Fixed would be my preference.
9) Yes just so 3X does not mean $8K
10) Get Tim Morton to build a few bikes for rental or perhaps have RMS offer rental nav setups. Maybe give the top 2 finishers of each baja class a discount on the entry fee or rental nav or something like that.

For me my biggest constraint is time. I'm far for wealthy, but I'd be willing to pay more $$ for something closer / compact as possible.

Good luck and thanks for dreaming big.
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:15 PM   #40
DaveRMS
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Rental kits

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilo View Post
perhaps have RMS offer rental nav setups
We already do!



http://www.rallymanagementservices.c...navigation-kit

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Old 06-05-2013, 03:25 PM   #41
pilo
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Awesome Dave.

For a new rally though I'd make sure the word got out that this was available.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:14 PM   #42
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a little different perspective

First off your idea sounds awesome and I would love to do it

Second - i'm a total noob when it comes to stage rally so take that into consideration...

3 days of racing
6 hours/day for fast riders
Vary nav difficultly inverse to terrain, but it should be a challenge still, maybe a couple SS with both difficult terrain and nav
Vary terrain difficulty
Practice optional
Camp is fine, close to the race keep it simple and ups the social aspect
Keep liaisons reasonable
Stationary bivouac
Not willing to pay 3 times for for Western US

My list may seem to watered down to a seasoned rally racer and I get that... but i feel like my list represents an average guy point of view that has to juggle a budget, time off work, time away from family, and a fixed amount of vacation in a year.

I guess it depends if you want to cater to the existing rally crowd (would understand if you do) or if you are trying to attract new racers. The reality is a limited number of people can do this and are even interested in it. An even smaller number can dedicate significant time and money.

For me, it would be great to have a mix of options from long weekend rallys to 7 - 10 day rallys that would provide average guys the ability to take their rally racing to the next level and still leave growth for when we retire
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:36 PM   #43
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I would need more details, but this sounds to me like a bucket list item

for an old racer with a fascination with Dakar.I do have a question

regarding the bikes to be used, are you going to leave bike size open

or are you going use something like the FIM classes? Thanks Fritz
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Old 07-30-2013, 07:48 PM   #44
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are you going to leave bike size open or are you going use something like the FIM classes?
We haven't decided yet. But my first thought is I would not want to put a 450cc upper limit. Maybe a separate class for over 450cc. A heavy bike would not be fun on several of the stages.

I'll have more details soon.
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Old 07-30-2013, 09:38 PM   #45
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Def count me in. I mean: Please, May I?

I'd try and work it out, somehow.

I'd like a couple days at least, hard riding all of it, varied. Bivouac.

As for the course: Lead Me Into Temptation HORS PISTE
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