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Old 06-13-2013, 12:28 PM   #16
foxtrapper
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I've read the other thread, and your comments.

"...I realized that it was quite a steep drop...and long too. I remember thinking, can I ride back up this thing? By then, it was too late, I was committed to going to the bottom and trying my luck from there..."

That right there is the only reason I'm posting. I wouldn't have committed. I actually would have stopped there on the top, and walked down to decide. Why buy trouble needlessly? This doesn't mean I don't get in jams. But why get into one that you could see coming? I'll ride a trail I can't turn around on, but only if I know I can turn around up ahead.

I'm old enough to remember when we didn't have cell phones and SPOT and the like. Technology is a wonderfull thing, but it does bring its own problems. Today, many are comparatively fearless and thoughtless about adventuring forth ill prepared, because they have confidence in their ability to call AAA and have themselves rescued.

Many folk are in serious trouble if their bike/car/boat quits running. In part because of the complexity of modern machines, but also because they don't know how to do it, and aren't carrying the equipment or tools. Why bother when you've got a cell phone and a AAA card? Same for their own bodies. When was the last time you saw a blanket in the trunk of a car?

In a nut shell, I think the old Boy Scout moto says it best, and briefest. Be Prepared.

P.S. (because I couldn't figure out a good way to include it above) You had a heck of a time with that situation after you got into at the bottom in no small measure because of the size of the bike you were on. So did the guy in the other thread. Think of how much easier it would have been for either of you with something like an 80 cc bike. You can almost pick up and carry a bike of that size. Sure, it's not as fast or as cool as a big bike is. But for serious outback exploration, littler and lighter is often times a better choice than bigger and heavier.
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:50 PM   #17
corndog67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrapper View Post

I'm old enough to remember when we didn't have cell phones and SPOT and the like. Technology is a wonderfull thing, but it does bring its own problems. Today, many are comparatively fearless and thoughtless about adventuring forth ill prepared, because they have confidence in their ability to call AAA and have themselves rescued.

In a nut shell, I think the old Boy Scout moto says it best, and briefest. Be Prepared.

P.S. (because I couldn't figure out a good way to include it above) You had a heck of a time with that situation after you got into at the bottom in no small measure because of the size of the bike you were on. So did the guy in the other thread. Think of how much easier it would have been for either of you with something like an 80 cc bike. You can almost pick up and carry a bike of that size. Sure, it's not as fast or as cool as a big bike is. But for serious outback exploration, littler and lighter is often times a better choice than bigger and heavier.
This much is absolutely true. Just because Ewan and Charlie went across Siberia, with chase vehicles and 25 crew guys, doesn't mean that 550+lb bike is a good choice to go on the Rubicon Trail with. I've actually considered getting a GS or 990 Adv, but I imagine myself lying underneath one out there, and decide, nope that won't work, so I ride 250s and 450s. Even the XRL650 I owned was too large for tight trail work, or going on the especially small pig trails I like to ride on.

Whatever you like. Right now it's my 950 SM, in the next 2 or 3 weeks, probably a KX250 2 stroke, just for fun.
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Old 06-13-2013, 12:52 PM   #18
High Country Herb
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I am in Ronin's camp on this one. While I have no intention of getting killed out there, knowing it is a possibility gives more meaning to my life. I almost always ride alone, and there is no cell phone reception in the forest. I sometimes carry a backpack with lunch and a couple bottles of water, but that is about it.

Like others, I have found myself at the bottom of a nasty trail with no way out. On my most recent close call, I followed a 60 year old dozer trail down a mountain, hoping to link to another trail. After about 4 miles of downhill so steep I could not stop most of the time, I came upon a 30 foot cliff. The only way out was up, and my XL600 was shod with Kenda K761 street tires (similar to those on the abandoned BMW). The first uphill had about 5 feet of runway, and was steep enough that I needed both hands and feet to climb it; not what those tires were meant for. To my surprise, the old beast climbed like an elevator. I got stuck, and stalled a few times on the climb out. Each time, I had to drag the bike parallel to the slope to kick start it. Getting pointing uphill again was always a challenge, but with no other option I somehow managed. It took me about 1.5 hours to get out. When I reached the main road, I was dripping with sweat. After experiences like that, I always feel strong and alive, knowing my fate was in my own hands.

I think I get my attitude from my Dad and Uncle. My Dad took us kids to black powder shooting rendezvous often, where we learned about mountain men and trappers from centuries past. Those guys were 2-6 months from the nearest help, and lived off the land. Lots of them died, but the survivors had some great stories to tell.

My uncle, who is now about 70 years old, still rides Death Valley and the Mojave alone on his plated XR400 on a regular basis. He is an old Baja racer, and nothing phases him. He has crashed hard enough to have an eye hanging out of its socket, and still made it back. I think he secretly hopes to die that way some day, just as he lived; a risk taker.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:07 PM   #19
Stinez
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We had a person use the spot help button a couple years ago while in Baja*.

While in a tent with food and water and with gas in their bike.

The problem was that they were "uncomfortable".


IMO That was the worst spot help use EVER.


* They even posted the story in here somewhere.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:12 PM   #20
Ronin ADV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by High Country Herb View Post
I am in Ronin's camp on this one. While I have no intention of getting killed out there, knowing it is a possibility gives more meaning to my life. I almost always ride alone, and there is no cell phone reception in the forest. I sometimes carry a backpack with lunch and a couple bottles of water, but that is about it.

Like others, I have found myself at the bottom of a nasty trail with no way out. On my most recent close call, I followed a 60 year old dozer trail down a mountain, hoping to link to another trail. After about 4 miles of downhill so steep I could not stop most of the time, I came upon a 30 foot cliff. The only way out was up, and my XL600 was shod with Kenda K761 street tires (similar to those on the abandoned BMW). The first uphill had about 5 feet of runway, and was steep enough that I needed both hands and feet to climb it; not what those tires were meant for. To my surprise, the old beast climbed like an elevator. I got stuck, and stalled a few times on the climb out. Each time, I had to drag the bike parallel to the slope to kick start it. Getting pointing uphill again was always a challenge, but with no other option I somehow managed. It took me about 1.5 hours to get out. When I reached the main road, I was dripping with sweat. After experiences like that, I always feel strong and alive, knowing my fate was in my own hands.

I think I get my attitude from my Dad and Uncle. My Dad took us kids to black powder shooting rendezvous often, where we learned about mountain men and trappers from centuries past. Those guys were 2-6 months from the nearest help, and lived off the land. Lots of them died, but the survivors had some great stories to tell.

My uncle, who is now about 70 years old, still rides Death Valley and the Mojave alone on his plated XR400 on a regular basis. He is an old Baja racer, and nothing phases him. He has crashed hard enough to have an eye hanging out of its socket, and still made it back. I think he secretly hopes to die that way some day, just as he lived; a risk taker.
Good for you and your uncle. You have decided what level of risk you want, and you live with the consequences of that choice.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:16 PM   #21
Ronin ADV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinez View Post
We had a person use the spot help button a couple years ago while in Baja*.

While in a tent with food and water and with gas in their bike.

The problem was that they were "uncomfortable".


IMO That was the worst spot help use EVER.


* They even posted the story in here somewhere.
This is the opposite end of things. Calling for "help" exposes others and should truly, only be used when you have fully exhausted your capacity for self rescue. Unfortunately that kind of shit happens all too often with SPOT and other beacons. Our local Search and Rescue has responded to plenty of this crap. IMO they should stick these guys with a hefty "rescue" bill for such nonsense.
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Red dirt, rocks and sand; Riding the southern UTBDR, WR250R vs EXC 500 - a comparison
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Old 06-13-2013, 02:33 PM   #22
High Country Herb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin ADV View Post
Good for you and your uncle. You have decided what level of risk you want, and you live with the consequences of that choice.
Just to clarify; I am not advocating my choice for anyone else. To each his/her own.
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:10 PM   #23
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Stupid mistake...

I don't have a dirt machine yet, so I'm stuck riding more civilized roads. However, here in Montana even civilized roads can get you in trouble because you're still a ways away from help. Yesterday I left work on my Katana 600. I have a set of soft saddle bags I keep on the bike regularly because I haven't finished fabricating my hard bag mounts yet. When I leave work, I'm two miles on dirt before reaching pavement, then another two or three miles to "civilization". About half way down the dirt road I feel something shift on the back of my bike. The dirt road was facing slightly down hill at this point and was rutted. I stop the bike, shut it off, and put the kickstand down and get off the bike (kickstand up higher than the tires because of the poor road conditions). I wasn't off the bike 10 seconds, just getting my helmet off and cussing myself for not checking the bags before I left work... The bike falls over facing downhill . At first I panicked, what damage had been done? I knew I could get help easily enough (I had cell service), but I hate calling people to come "rescue" me (they were 40 minutes away at least), especially for something so stupid. Seeing gas leaking out of the bike, I knew I needed to get it upright quickly. I went to the downhill side and tried to pick it up. CRAP, didn't realize it was that heavy. It weighs well over 500lbs with fluids and my bags on it. Couldn't get the bags off because one was trapped under the bike. First attempt to lift the bike and I was surprised. Second attempt I got it half way up before I started loosing my grip. Finally, on the third try I managed to lift it up and get it back on it's kickstand. Broke off the mirror, turn signal, bent brake lever, cracked fairing, scuffed plastics, messed up bar end, and a small amount of damage to the exhaust on that side because I didn't check my bags before I left work and failed to park in a place that would give me the correct angle for my kickstand to be effective .

I felt like a dumbass, still do, and feel that way sharing it here. But last night I got to thinking about it more after I had gotten over being pissed and embarrassed. I wasn't in any real danger, but I learned the hard way to:

1) Check the bike over no matter how much of a rush I'm in
2) Park the bike in an appropriate location even if I'm only getting off the bike for a moment to check something
3) The bike weighs a lot more than you think it does, especially when you have to lift it past 90 degrees because it's facing downhill

Not life threatening, or even being stuck in the woods like most people have shared here, but information that could save me from a disaster when I am out in the woods on a different bike at a later point in time. I missed a couple simple steps (I can hear my MSF instructor in my head telling me to check the bike before I ride), which would have only cost me 30 seconds, and now my bike is messed up and I'm going to be out a couple hundred bucks not counting the body work. Relatively cheap lesson, but still sucked...
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:20 PM   #24
Stinky151
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Where in western Montana? And who was your instructor?
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:28 PM   #25
Moto_Geek
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Originally Posted by Stinky151 View Post
Where in western Montana? And who was your instructor?
I live in the Bitterroot Valley, south of Missoula. I took the MSF Basic Rider Course with DJ and Kelly. They are a husband and wife team that were great. As soon as this went down, I could hear them in my head, "always run through this checklist in your head". Considering I've covered 3,000 miles in the last three and a half weeks since I picked up my bike this is a cheap lesson learned. They don't write the stuff in those books, and teach you that in class because it doesn't matter. Normally I am anal about checking things on my bike because I don't want something going wrong at highway speeds. Just got in a hurry to leave work and get home and found myself creating a bad situation due to inattention...
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:33 PM   #26
Stinky151
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I know them both, good people. I try to drill pre ride check out into folks when I can.
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Old 06-13-2013, 03:41 PM   #27
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I know them both, good people. I try to drill pre ride check out into folks when I can.
Yeah, they were fantastic coaches and great people I would genuinely like to ride with and get to know better if the opportunity arises. Our paths probably won't cross again, but they were great and I would never discourage even an experienced rider from taking the class. I rode years ago in another state, but didn't have my Moto endoursement transferred over when I moved here and hadn't ridden much in the last 8 years. Ended up taking the class instead of trying to study for, and pass, the DMV driving test. Great class, learned tons, some of which saved my life when I flew to California last month and rode my new (to me) bike home from California to Montana. California driver made a left in front of me at an intersection. The scanning ahead and the swerving I learned in that class prevented me from becoming a hood ornament. Glad I didn't have to learn that lesson the hard way...
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:22 PM   #28
Angelsndevils
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reading all these threads has got my gears turning. Instead of all these communication gizmos I was thinking more along the lines of a well designed 12 volt winch for these bigger bikes. Found one that is 14 lbs with 49 feet of air craft cable. 2000 lb pulling capacity. power in/out. It would need quick disconnects for power and a bar mounted in/out switch. Would an extra 14 lbs of weight be worth the insurance of at least not getting stuck? Sure its no cure for a broken leg but it sounds like we all get stuck alot more than injured.
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Old 06-13-2013, 04:58 PM   #29
foxtrapper
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12 volt winches are neat (unless you've a 6 volt bike), but they pull a lot of amps. Doubt many dirt bike batteries could power them.

Deer winches might be a far better idea. 700-1000 lb compound pulling power, and typically upwards of 100' of cord on them.

Added: Here's an example. At that price, I might quit looking for my lost one, even if the lost one is a wee bit smaller.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c...aspx?a=1116882

foxtrapper screwed with this post 06-13-2013 at 06:03 PM
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:31 PM   #30
Ronin ADV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelsndevils View Post
reading all these threads has got my gears turning. Instead of all these communication gizmos I was thinking more along the lines of a well designed 12 volt winch for these bigger bikes. Found one that is 14 lbs with 49 feet of air craft cable. 2000 lb pulling capacity. power in/out. It would need quick disconnects for power and a bar mounted in/out switch. Would an extra 14 lbs of weight be worth the insurance of at least not getting stuck? Sure its no cure for a broken leg but it sounds like we all get stuck alot more than injured.
IMO these types of devices are bit heavy although some guys on big bikes like a GS are using winches.

Here's a much lighter more compact solution:
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....4&postcount=35
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Up the WABDR, F800GS Stealth Bike Build, WR250R Scotts Damper Install
Red dirt, rocks and sand; Riding the southern UTBDR, WR250R vs EXC 500 - a comparison
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