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Old 06-10-2013, 10:23 AM   #241
roger 04 rt OP
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canoehead View Post
Roger, it is really nice to see some analysis of the PCIII on the 1150. Empirically, I know it makes my bike run better but I was always suspicious of the programming since every time I would ask questions at Dynojet they would say, "Oh, BMW 1150....hmm...we really don't know how it works".

I wonder, however, if the O2 sensor on the one you tested was going bad? Did you try it with a newer sensor? One of the things that I don't like about the PCIII is that it doesn't use the heater circuit for the O2 sensor, which could result in some error and sooting up of the sensor. When I got mine, the sensor was pretty sooty and I cleaned it as best I could without chemicals.

Looks like I'm buying another LC-1, unless your box is coming soon...
Hey Mr. CH, The BMW version was the only Closed Loop PC system that they made, and as such it was one of those good ideas that didn't go anywhere. As far as the Wideband accuracy goes, they use the trimmed Bosch unit that comes with the LSU 4.2 but everyone else I talk to says that the need more calibration than that. All I know is that I have several narrowbands, three Widebands, and the PC III unit and it is the PC III unit that was out. There was a lot of soot on it and the Dynoject tech support person suggested that I either find some "test gas" or buy another unit. My beemer, with all the other sensors has a good reference at Lambda =1 so I know the PC Wideband was not good. I sent the unit back before buying another. It wasn't well rated for accuracy here: http://www.2gnt.com/documents/teklei...d_Shootout.pdf.

Nightrider.com is making the narrowband devices. I will get a few dozen and help nightrider.com to deliever them, probably in two weeks. BTW, production unit one was delivered, tested, approved and shipped to a customer today.

RB
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:11 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
So it looks like we'll be doing two or three betas:

-dirtysouthjacket
-jscottyk
-scienceofdirt

First beta for F800GS goes out this week.
First production unit for R1150GS goes out this week.

RB
Awesomeness! Looking forward to it.
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Old 06-10-2013, 05:05 PM   #243
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Slightly off-topic but Dynojet seems to have changed their approach to the closed loop problem.

DesmoDAB has a PCV for his MS12 and here is a quote from DynoJet:

"We make different type of Optimizers. We used to make a simple o2 eliminator, you disconnected the stock o2 sensor and installed our o2 eliminator. The o2 sensor could be removed from the bike. We still make, and sell that type, but we changed the name to Optimizer. With eliminators installed in the bike, the Power Commander is in complete control of fuel.

Some bikes, like your Ducati use a fancier ECU, you cannot use a simple o2 eliminator, you have to leave the stock o2 sensors in the exhaust, and modify the signal going back to the ECU. That is what our more sophisticated Optimizers do. With this style Optimizer, the Optimizer is controlling the fuel in closed loop, the Power Commander is controlling the fuel in open loop.”


I have a LC-1 sitting on the shelf that was intended for my truck, but the bike might get it first.

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Old 06-10-2013, 06:43 PM   #244
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Install the LC-1 in the truck, install Roger's device on the bike.

Terry
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:34 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canoehead View Post
Slightly off-topic but Dynojet seems to have changed their approach to the closed loop problem.

DesmoDAB has a PCV for his MS12 and here is a quote from DynoJet:

[FONT=&quot]"We make different type of Optimizers. We used to make a simple o2 eliminator, you disconnected the stock o2 sensor and installed our o2 eliminator. The o2 sensor could be removed from the bike. We still make, and sell that type, but we changed the name to Optimizer. With eliminators installed in the bike, the Power Commander is in complete control of fuel.

...

I have a LC-1 sitting on the shelf that was intended for my truck, but the bike might get it first.
Dynojet is still basically an Open Loop platform with an Open Loop mentality. They still advise not programming in the Closed Loop area and that's too bad because there are a lot of times you should. Also the O2 Optimizer/eliminator is a problem solving device when a "fix" is needed.

Whether you go LC-1 or narrowband shift, your bike will perform better with more Closed Loop fuel and Adaptation. As more get installed on more models, the certainty of its benefit is clearer.

I've just started crunching a new batch of 2011 R1200GSA data including some wot segments from which I can calculate torque curves.

Also building and shipping narrowband betas for R1200 and F800 to ship in a couple weeks.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:41 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by terryckdbf View Post
Install the LC-1 in the truck, install Roger's device on the bike.

Terry
That's where I'm leaning right now....I'm going to wait a couple of weeks and see what the final cost is - I sent an email to Nightrider.com since they have a waitlist email on the site.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:39 PM   #247
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Just a follow up to my post on on Roger's test device. After having to uninstall the test unit I did a 100 mile day ride, two up. The difference was really noticeable. Even with a really good TB sync using a Harmonizer across multiple RPMs, I had noticeable surging after the uninstall. Low RPM roll-on was significantly reduced as well. I think the uninstall made the differences more noticeable, as the Motronic gets reset, and unlike with the install, there is no adaptation going on, as it's back to base line.

I will be buying one! I heartily recommend every 1150 owner get one, along with an IAT shifting device such as the IICE Air or Booster Plug.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:20 AM   #248
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Just a follow up to my post on on Roger's test device. After having to uninstall the test unit I did a 100 mile day ride, two up. The difference was really noticeable. Even with a really good TB sync using a Harmonizer across multiple RPMs, I had noticeable surging after the uninstall. Low RPM roll-on was significantly reduced as well. I think the uninstall made the differences more noticeable, as the Motronic gets reset, and unlike with the install, there is no adaptation going on, as it's back to base line.

I will be buying one! I heartily recommend every 1150 owner get one, along with an IAT shifting device such as the IICE Air or Booster Plug.
Thanks Eric, glad to hear. I've sent you production unit one just yesterday. No reason to live with a stock bike much longer. These BMWs really respond to just a bit more fuel.

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That's where I'm leaning right now....I'm going to wait a couple of weeks and see what the final cost is - I sent an email to Nightrider.com since they have a waitlist email on the site.
Steve@nightrider won't list these on his site until the volumes build so what I've agreed to do so that this gets going: I've purchased four dozen sets of OEM connectors and will place a series of bulk orders. Then I'll find a way to distribute and let everyone know soon. There will probably be a page in the vendors section. I will have an announcement any day soon.

After that we will also list a generic cable while we test and shore up supplies for R1200s, F800s and R1100s. The generic cable would allow someone to add it to their existing O2 sensor, avoiding the wait for OEM connector availability. It will be a cut and crimp operation.
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Old 06-12-2013, 09:12 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by EKinOR View Post
Just a follow up to my post on on Roger's test device. After having to uninstall the test unit I did a 100 mile day ride, two up. The difference was really noticeable. Even with a really good TB sync using a Harmonizer across multiple RPMs, I had noticeable surging after the uninstall...
EK, yougoing to Chief Joseph rally? Would like to chat about your experience with the closed-loop box. I'll be there with my 1150 Rockster.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:40 AM   #250
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EK, yougoing to Chief Joseph rally? Would like to chat about your experience with the closed-loop box. I'll be there with my 1150 Rockster.
I hadn't planned on it - I didn't see anything on the schedule that excited me. That said, I might be willing to ride over on Saturday for the day.
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Old 06-13-2013, 01:37 PM   #251
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:35 PM   #252
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Yup. I mentioned earlier in the thread that the zt3 was a candidate. Have you used it on a Beemer? Any logs of cold start, idle or a trip you can show us?
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:30 AM   #253
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Thanks Eric, glad to hear. I've sent you production unit one just yesterday. No reason to live with a stock bike much longer. These BMWs really respond to just a bit more fuel.
Go it today! Is there any difference between it and the test unit? It'll go on tomorrow. I'm super happy to have it after having to return the test unit.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:35 AM   #254
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Go it today! Is there any difference between it and the test unit? It'll go on tomorrow. I'm super happy to have it after having to return the test unit.
It has the same internal chip set but a neater cable and packaging. If you get a chance to take photos of the install that would be great.

The manufacturing organization is making more, I hope to have word on how to order soon.

RB
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Old 06-14-2013, 12:59 PM   #255
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no logs but very accurate. I have the zt-2 which does not have the data logging the zt-3 does but I dont think I will need to log as of yet.
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