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Old 06-24-2013, 12:59 AM   #31
Pecha72
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Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cug View Post
the general population that thinks because they can out-brake an ABS bike in a constructed situation (and I doubt even that in most cases), they can do it all day every day.

I certainly can't. I consider myself a safe and responsible, and fairly quick rider. But there is absolutely no way I can beat the computer every time. I can prevent about 99% of the cases where I would need it though - and that's nothing the computer can help with. I think riding a bike for years and years makes you smell those people that won't see you ... and that adds more to safety than ABS ever can.

Agreed with that.
Personally I can quickly think of three occasions, where I feel that Iīve benefited from the system (and they all happened on tarmac):

- on a mountain road, going a bit too hot into a tightening right-hand bend and then noticing, that recent rains have brought onto the surface all sorts of slippery stuff from the inner curve

- accelerating on a freeway on-ramp, focusing on cars, when a bicyclist (who are not allowed to be there in the first place) suddenly decides to cut across the road, and does this straight in front of me

- passing a truck, riding about 70mph, when a very large pig runs from behind it, the pig narrowly misses the front of the truck, and suddenly appears right in front of me.

First two were not such a big deal, but it was nice on both occasions, to not have to worry about locking the wheels. On a mountain road, braking on a curve with changing traction can sometimes be a handful, and losing either the front or back, or slipping out of the road are not options you want to take. But Iīm pretty sure I would have survived first two without ABS, it just made it a bit easier.

But that last one Iīm not so sure of. And it was actually scary, as I was riding with my girlfriend, and we had a looot of luggage for a 6-month trip, so the bike weighed a ton, and itīs NOT easy to make an emergency stop. Luckily a hard braking was enough, because there was not much space on either side, so any evasive moves could have put us into the ditch, or even worse, under the truck. And that situation came and went just like the flick of a switch, no way to see that pig coming until it was right there in front of me.

I really do take my hat off to any person, who is able to calculate the exact grip amount on the surface (that can possibly also vary), and then make a very controlled emergency braking in that situation. I certainly could not do that, for the very simple reason, that there was not enough time. It went: see the pig, brake HARD, its gone. Or actually it went faster than the time spent reading those words! The element of surprise is also very hard to realistically duplicate during practice. I know I could have done better, if I knew beforehand, that the situation is coming.

And very hard braking was required, instantly, otherwise we would have collided with the pig (braking hard, we missed it by a ratīs pubic hair!) What would have happened then – I donīt really want to think about the options. Surviving this without ABS, sure itīs possible, but itīs equally possible, that Iīd screw it up, and we would have gone down. I think Iīd give myself a 50% chance of succeeding without a crash on normal brakes. So for me, thatīs a prime example of where ABS is very handy to have.

And if you need ABS every day, thereīs a good chance, that you are doing something wrong. But even if you seldom need it, that does not mean there wonīt ever be a situation, where you would really benefit from it. If it really helps you just ONCE, then itīs already been well worth the 500 USD, which was the OPīs price difference. A crash you could fix with 500 USD is usually a very minor one, and there can easily be other than material damage as well, those are a lot tougher to calculate.

Just my 0.02.
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:33 AM   #32
TheJRM OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecha72 View Post
Agreed with that.
Personally I can quickly think of three occasions, where I feel that Iīve benefited from the system (and they all happened on tarmac):

- on a mountain road, going a bit too hot into a tightening right-hand bend and then noticing, that recent rains have brought onto the surface all sorts of slippery stuff from the inner curve

- accelerating on a freeway on-ramp, focusing on cars, when a bicyclist (who are not allowed to be there in the first place) suddenly decides to cut across the road, and does this straight in front of me

- passing a truck, riding about 70mph, when a very large pig runs from behind it, the pig narrowly misses the front of the truck, and suddenly appears right in front of me.

First two were not such a big deal, but it was nice on both occasions, to not have to worry about locking the wheels. On a mountain road, braking on a curve with changing traction can sometimes be a handful, and losing either the front or back, or slipping out of the road are not options you want to take. But Iīm pretty sure I would have survived first two without ABS, it just made it a bit easier.

But that last one Iīm not so sure of. And it was actually scary, as I was riding with my girlfriend, and we had a looot of luggage for a 6-month trip, so the bike weighed a ton, and itīs NOT easy to make an emergency stop. Luckily a hard braking was enough, because there was not much space on either side, so any evasive moves could have put us into the ditch, or even worse, under the truck. And that situation came and went just like the flick of a switch, no way to see that pig coming until it was right there in front of me.

I really do take my hat off to any person, who is able to calculate the exact grip amount on the surface (that can possibly also vary), and then make a very controlled emergency braking in that situation. I certainly could not do that, for the very simple reason, that there was not enough time. It went: see the pig, brake HARD, its gone. Or actually it went faster than the time spent reading those words! The element of surprise is also very hard to realistically duplicate during practice. I know I could have done better, if I knew beforehand, that the situation is coming.

And very hard braking was required, instantly, otherwise we would have collided with the pig (braking hard, we missed it by a ratīs pubic hair!) What would have happened then – I donīt really want to think about the options. Surviving this without ABS, sure itīs possible, but itīs equally possible, that Iīd screw it up, and we would have gone down. I think Iīd give myself a 50% chance of succeeding without a crash on normal brakes. So for me, thatīs a prime example of where ABS is very handy to have.

And if you need ABS every day, thereīs a good chance, that you are doing something wrong. But even if you seldom need it, that does not mean there wonīt ever be a situation, where you would really benefit from it. If it really helps you just ONCE, then itīs already been well worth the 500 USD, which was the OPīs price difference. A crash you could fix with 500 USD is usually a very minor one, and there can easily be other than material damage as well, those are a lot tougher to calculate.

Just my 0.02.

GREAT feedback! Those are exactly the types of scenarios I want ABS for. I've spent enough time on 2 wheels to feel that I really don't need ABS for everyday/normal riding, but I WANT ABS for the times where, even when I am in control, I cannot control what is happening around me.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:40 AM   #33
Pecha72
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Also good to keep in mind, that there are many versions of “ABS” on bikes these days (actually all the way from year 1986 onwards). For one thing, newer systems have a muich quicker īcycleī of metering wheel speed, releasing brake pressure, and re-applying it. And the most sophisticated ABSīs now work together with the bikes traction control system, and adjust their function to the settings specified by the rider, and also suspension movement / bike lean angle info picked up by sensors and gyroscopes.

So they do not all perform exactly the same way. Especially when braking happens on a surface, that is wet, or bumpy, or has sections of good tarmac, and some sand, etc. One ABS bike might stop very well, while the other requires a much longer distance to stop.

But I would still generalise this much: for riding on tarmac, a modern ABS-system on a modern motorcycle is a clear plus for 99.9% of riders.
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Old 06-24-2013, 09:36 PM   #34
kingofZroad
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Here were my thoughts last year while pondering this very question:

I can always shut the ABS "off" if need be, or I so desire (dirt).... But, if I don't HAVE it, it can't save my ass!

I bought the ABS version....
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:05 PM   #35
punkenduro
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my 2 cents

100% road bike, abs unless the bikes system is know to be overly intrusive.

anything more dirt orentated then a gs, no abs. i want to be able to lock the rear or brake super hard and hold the bike on a decline.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:24 PM   #36
NONAME13
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ABS no BS

Not gonna go on and on how good abs is on bikes were not talking cars or trucks just bikes firstly honda linked brakes are just great there's always a time when you need brakes usually when your not expecting it however having a VFR with real brakes and even my last wee strom had them it makes all the difference .If any doubt try a mountain bike with some nice avid disc brakes then a mountain bike with v brakes on or off road .Honda can screw up some bikes but everything else they do is pretty good go abs it's worth it.
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