ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Beasts
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-23-2013, 08:22 PM   #1
mminob OP
Adventurer
 
mminob's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Ocean Beach,California
Oddometer: 83
Baby Tiger 675 Please...

After a demo ride on a 800 Triumph Tiger ...great bike...but too much motor and money for me right now ...and I also have ridden a Speed Triple 1050 ...wow...way too much power for what I want...and also had a demo ride on a fantastic Street Triple 675 ... I think a 675 Tiger XC or a 675 Tiger Sport ...is a great idea for that wonderful motor...Tuned for torque and around 400 lbs. ... under 10,000 dollars... Please Triumph Please...Build a Baby Tiger 675...
__________________
2013 KLR 650,Leo Vince,Jetkit,Zero Gravity,Galfer,EBC,705's,EM stuff,Seat Concepts...Let The Good Times Roll 2011 DL650 ABS...Purrs like kitty cat...cheap thrills.
mminob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 07:05 AM   #2
Yossarian™
Deputy Cultural Attaché
 
Yossarian™'s Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: the 'Ha
Oddometer: 9,592
The 800 is the same block as the 675; it's just stroked out to an 800.

Lower redline, but more torque, to make it more tractable to an ADV / dual sport type of ride.

The cost of putting in a 675 engine into the Tiger would be the same as the 800, and give a much peakier powerband.
__________________
Successfully surviving motorcycling since 1976.
Yossarian™ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 08:37 AM   #3
markbvt
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Georgia, Vermont (that's one town, not two states)
Oddometer: 2,661
Don't waste your time hoping for it, it'll never happen. Triumph would see no point in building such a bike. It would be the exact same thing as a Tiger 800, just with a peakier powerband that's not suited to ADV purposes. There's also no way they could bring it in at 400lbs without seriously cutting back on the other parts of the bike that make it heavier than a Street Triple (ie, the frame, suspension, wheels, etc).

If you want a cheaper, less powerful ADV bike, buy a Wee-Strom. Or just find yourself a nice used Tiger 800 and go easy on the throttle.

--mark
__________________
'11 Triumph Tiger 800 XC / '03 Honda XR650L / '01 Triumph Bonneville cafe

My ride reports: Missile silos, Labrador, twisties, and more

Bennington Triumph Bash, May 30-June 1, 2014
markbvt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2013, 03:26 PM   #4
browneye
PIN IT & BANG GEARS
 
browneye's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Oddometer: 4,844
OP is a prospect for a Kawasaki Versys.

Or yeah, a DL650 V-Strom. Or one of the new Honda 500's.

If the 800 is more bike than you're comfortable with then get some time on a smaller bike and hone the skills. Went you're to the point you're 'wanting more' the XC will seem perfect.

That the XC will do 40mph is first gear does some kind of excessive, doesn't it?
__________________
Chris Brown - "The Browneye"
"Without Motorcycles, People Live Very Boring Lives." - Malcolm Smith
Camp Nelson 2014 RRLaguna Seca 2012 RRSequoia 3-Day CampoutThanksgiving 2012
browneye is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 06:10 AM   #5
TIGERRIDER007
Studly Adventurer
 
TIGERRIDER007's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Acworth, GA
Oddometer: 814
yep

My Tiger riding buddies and I have had this conversation since the 675 came out....build a Tiger Cub, more off road with a triple motor, the 675 motor.

I agree, the motor is ideal but the chassis would have to be lighter than the 800 for this "Cub" to be successful at its purpose.
It seems KTM has the title for making light weight off road machines. Maybe Triumph could talk to those Austrians about how to pull this off. I mean when you take the 1190 Adventure and make it weigh as much as a Tiger 800, plus it puts out a 150 hp at 478lbs. or so....you are doing something light!

I'm not sure Triumph is willing to enter the ring to take on KTM or even BMW/Husqvarna, the models being a 690 and a 650 Terra...but this segment of the adventure market seems to be hot in certain areas of the US...but I'm no expert, just a dreamer .
__________________
Scott
06' Triumph Tiger (my lifer)
05' Husqvarna TE510 (yeller and blue)
TIGERRIDER007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 06:17 AM   #6
bluesman
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Hoegaarden, Belgium
Oddometer: 3,274
Just get Street Tripple :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PBsH4Xry9U
bluesman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:14 AM   #7
markbvt
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Georgia, Vermont (that's one town, not two states)
Oddometer: 2,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGERRIDER007 View Post
I mean when you take the 1190 Adventure and make it weigh as much as a Tiger 800, plus it puts out a 150 hp at 478lbs. or so....
Check your facts. The 1190 Adventure weighs about 40lbs more than the Tiger -- 518lbs, not 478.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGERRIDER007 View Post
I'm not sure Triumph is willing to enter the ring to take on KTM or even BMW/Husqvarna, the models being a 690 and a 650 Terra...
Those are singles.

The reason Triumph doesn't build a 400lb seriously dirt-oriented Tiger is, in part at least, because they don't have an engine to leverage for it. If they wanted to seriously compete in that market, they would need to design an all-new lightweight single- or twin-cylinder engine. The 675 triple isn't light enough -- it's nearly exactly the same engine as the 800, just with a shorter stroke, so if it were that light, the 800 would be too. Plus its powerband is peaky, as previously discussed -- that's why they stroked it to 800cc for use in the Tiger.

Bear in mind that even the KTM 950 Super Enduro, which is by far the most dirt-oriented of the large multi-cylinder ADV bikes, weighs around 450lbs once you add gas/etc.

Sure it would be nice if Triumph decided to put out a really dirt-oriented, lightweight Tiger. But it just doesn't make business sense for them to do it. There's a reason that not even KTM still makes such a bike, having discontinued the Super Enduro a few years ago.

--mark
__________________
'11 Triumph Tiger 800 XC / '03 Honda XR650L / '01 Triumph Bonneville cafe

My ride reports: Missile silos, Labrador, twisties, and more

Bennington Triumph Bash, May 30-June 1, 2014
markbvt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 08:37 AM   #8
TIGERRIDER007
Studly Adventurer
 
TIGERRIDER007's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Acworth, GA
Oddometer: 814
Yep, I guess my point agrees with you Mark, this would be a niche bike...

As far as weight goes, that's a slippery fish, so many weight's out there to choose from...this is from a cycle world article:

"No corners were cut in the braking department, where massive Brembo 320mm front discs and radial-mount calipers are standard equipment. KTM announced a claimed dry weight of 467 pounds. The R version is slightly heavier due to additional engine and tank protection."

I also agree that we won't see this bike from Triumph, just have to continue riding mine and loving it.
I'm also looking hard at an Explorer XC when it gets here in white.
__________________
Scott
06' Triumph Tiger (my lifer)
05' Husqvarna TE510 (yeller and blue)
TIGERRIDER007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 09:12 AM   #9
markbvt
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Georgia, Vermont (that's one town, not two states)
Oddometer: 2,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGERRIDER007 View Post
KTM announced a claimed dry weight of 467 pounds.
That's dry weight. They list wet weight at 518lbs. The Tiger's wet weight is 473lbs. Both are the manufacturer's claimed weight, so in reality they're both probably heavier.

Point is, nice as it would be to have a multicylinder dirtbike under 400lbs, it's just not realistic. Aprilia tried it with the RXV, but that was a much smaller twin in a true dirtbike frame, and that engine was notoriously high-maintenance. In all honesty, the best candidate for the kind of bike you're thinking of (and which I agree would be cool) would be a Suzuki SV650 platform. There's an inmate on here who built one.



Build thread here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288338

Too bad Suzuki never saw fit to build a bike like this themselves, or at least a seriously stripped down V-Strom.

--mark
__________________
'11 Triumph Tiger 800 XC / '03 Honda XR650L / '01 Triumph Bonneville cafe

My ride reports: Missile silos, Labrador, twisties, and more

Bennington Triumph Bash, May 30-June 1, 2014
markbvt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-26-2013, 12:28 AM   #10
The Blue Rider
Adventurer
 
The Blue Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: DFW, TX
Oddometer: 48
Start with a Street Triple, work up a subframe that has a hard luggage mount, add *slightly* taller, cushier suspension (which is what, different forks and a swingarm alteration?), tack on a bit of Tiger Sport-style fairing/windscreen and you'd have a classy little Versys competitor. Maybe provide for electrical accessories too... Basically Tiger Sport-ify the Street Triple to make an entry level/small size ADV-styled machine. It's a shame Triumph doesn't try this, but the result would be too close to the 800 to make a difference.

Even so, I'd buy one. Actually, I'd just settle for hard luggage on the Street Triple...
The Blue Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2013, 12:57 PM   #11
Rox
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Rox's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2013
Location: Between LA and Palm Springs
Oddometer: 143
Or just.......

__________________
" A ride a day keeps the doctor away...Unless you crash."
2012 Triumph Street Triple R
2002 Moto Guzzi V11 LeMans
Rox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 01:20 PM   #12
Profdecoy
Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Location: New Hampshire
Oddometer: 19
When I was waiting at my dealer on my Tiger's 6k mi service, I was talking to one of the sales guys there pretty much about this same exact thing.

Since Triumph has admitted that they were specifically targeting the F800GS with the Tiger 800s, I felt that that Triumph should come out with a Tiger Cub (same idea) to go after the G650GS /F700GS market as well. Slightly smaller engine, lower seat and ride height, less intimidating for shorter riders.

My wife really likes the Tiger 800, but it's too tall for her even with the low-low seat, and I'm not comfortable enough to do the suspension mods to lower the ride height 1" on the 800 for it to be comfortable for her. She actually was comfortable getting the Tiger 1200 off the side stand at the dealer, but she makes that bike look huge...

She doesn't mind the old F650GS or the new F700GS, but after my experiences with my F800ST, I don't think I'd want to get another bike based off of that same engine.
__________________
"I don't flirt with Death, she runs up and sticks her tongue in my ear."
Ita Devexus Quando Hic Adveni - "It was sinking when I got there..."
Profdecoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 01:50 PM   #13
Lion BR
I'd rather be riding
 
Lion BR's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon
Oddometer: 3,633
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbvt View Post
Check your facts. The 1190 Adventure weighs about 40lbs more than the Tiger -- 518lbs, not 478.



Those are singles.

The reason Triumph doesn't build a 400lb seriously dirt-oriented Tiger is, in part at least, because they don't have an engine to leverage for it. If they wanted to seriously compete in that market, they would need to design an all-new lightweight single- or twin-cylinder engine. The 675 triple isn't light enough -- it's nearly exactly the same engine as the 800, just with a shorter stroke, so if it were that light, the 800 would be too. Plus its powerband is peaky, as previously discussed -- that's why they stroked it to 800cc for use in the Tiger.

Bear in mind that even the KTM 950 Super Enduro, which is by far the most dirt-oriented of the large multi-cylinder ADV bikes, weighs around 450lbs once you add gas/etc.

Sure it would be nice if Triumph decided to put out a really dirt-oriented, lightweight Tiger. But it just doesn't make business sense for them to do it. There's a reason that not even KTM still makes such a bike, having discontinued the Super Enduro a few years ago.

--mark
I agree with your statements.

Anyway, tripples are not ideal motors for off road, as explained before. The 800 XC has the longer stroke version of the 675. It is the 675 bike you are talking about. And I have one and have to say, even with the longer stroke, it still doesn't have the torque profile that is ideal for dirt riding. It's just a characteristic of triples and in-line-4's, they are better suited for the road. For dirt, singles and twins. They are lighter and deliver better torque at low RPM.
__________________
Whenever we are riding, we are an ambassador to our sport

I'd rather be riding!


Lion BR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 01:57 PM   #14
Lion BR
I'd rather be riding
 
Lion BR's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon
Oddometer: 3,633
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Blue Rider View Post
Start with a Street Triple, work up a subframe that has a hard luggage mount, add *slightly* taller, cushier suspension (which is what, different forks and a swingarm alteration?), tack on a bit of Tiger Sport-style fairing/windscreen and you'd have a classy little Versys competitor. Maybe provide for electrical accessories too... Basically Tiger Sport-ify the Street Triple to make an entry level/small size ADV-styled machine. It's a shame Triumph doesn't try this, but the result would be too close to the 800 to make a difference.

Even so, I'd buy one. Actually, I'd just settle for hard luggage on the Street Triple...
You give your own answer to the issue when you say the result would be too close to the 800. Why? Because Triumph already did it. The 800 roadie is what you described - it started with a 675 but they did better than adapt frame, add suspension travel and swingarm, etc. They started it from scratch around the modified 675 motor and it is a great bike. Except from the natural challenges of triple motors on dirt, it is an awesome machine. Better than an in-line-4 would be.
__________________
Whenever we are riding, we are an ambassador to our sport

I'd rather be riding!


Lion BR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2013, 03:22 PM   #15
XCRider803
Loftin' the wheel
 
XCRider803's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Charlotte area
Oddometer: 834
The torque curve of the 800 is flat from around 3500 to 9k. Flat. Hooks up pretty well on the dirt. An inline four, at least modern production ones I've seen, the torque curve looks like an upside down 'u'.
__________________
----------------------------
2013 Triumph Tiger 800 XC
2013 Husky TE 449
XCRider803 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 05:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014