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Old 06-25-2013, 08:58 AM   #5626
Lucidor
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Location: Solna, Stockholm, Sweden
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Thank you all for your input.

I'm back from my test drive of the Ténéré, and I learned the importance of actually trying the bikes in person. The Yamaha has the specs, the quality and the looks, but I was not sitting comfortable. My knees were bent in a steeper angle than I would like, and the foot pegs too far aft. I drove it for one hour, and my legs started to hurt. To its defence the seat was in the lower position, but I don't think it would be dramatically different in the upper position.

The Stelvio on the other hand, was ergonomically perfect for me. The seating position felt natural and handles and switches where I wanted them. The Yamaha felt a bit more powerful, but I'm not a fast driver and prefer taking in the views rather than pulling wheelies.

The number of Guzzi dealers here in Europe is not as plentiful as for Yamaha, but still frequent enough to not be a problem. I have at least three dealers within 30 minutes from my home. My only concern is that none of them specializes in the brand, but rather offer them in addition to the more mainstream bikes. I would basically be shopping the Guzzi from a BMW or scooter dealer. When I asked for a test drive of the Stelvio, the seller looked perplexed...
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:22 AM   #5627
Lucidor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
4. The Guzzi did NOT have ride by wire, I HATE how the stock ride by wire setup feels on the S10, it's my #1 dislike on that bike. Apparently it can be fixed via a reflash. In general I prefer direct cable connect.
When you say ride by wire, are you referring to the linkage from the accelerator to the throttle being electric? I think it was traditional cable on the S10 I rode today. But perhaps it passes a computer along its way to the engine? I did notice that the engine hesitated when revved from idle, which made balancing engine to gear changes a bit tricky, especially when down shifting.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:34 AM   #5628
danketchpel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidor View Post
When you say ride by wire, are you referring to the linkage from the accelerator to the throttle being electric? I think it was traditional cable on the S10 I rode today. But perhaps it passes a computer along its way to the engine?
Yes, the cables from the twist grip run to a computer which then operates the throttle bodies by a servo motor. This would be fine if they programmed it to be a direct 1:1 reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucidor View Post
I did notice that the engine hesitated when revved from idle, which made balancing engine to gear changes a bit tricky, especially when down shifting.
What you describe is exactly what I disliked. Yamaha didn't program in a direct 1:1 reaction, sometimes you get too little, other times you get more than you want, it's not linear at all. The area just off idle is very hard to modulate smoothly.

The ECU also restricts power output in the first 3 gears. Apparently most of this can be cured by a ECU reflash. There is also a "quicky fix" by jumping the clutch switch I believe.

Personally I was very happy to have my twist grip connected to the throttle bodies by a direct cable, it's extremely reliable and as 1:1 as you can get. I don't need cruise control or traction control, that's what my brain and hands are for. I have the traction control on my Stelvio turned off and it will stay off when you restart the bike. The ABS will turn back on when you restart but it's super easy to turn off, just push and hold the button while it's stopped.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:51 PM   #5629
GabrielZD
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MRA spoiler...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HotChilliColdBeer View Post
I put one of these on my Stelvio and it worked WONDERS. Lifesaver at freeway speeds.





Charlie
Charlie,
Did you put the MRA spoiler on an NTX shield? Did you use the sport or tour version? This link from MRA's website says that either one will work on the NTX windshield:
https://www.mrashop.de/erp/catalog/n...N_KEY.offset=0
Do you have any pics of your setup?
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:55 PM   #5630
pyoungbl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GabrielZD View Post
Charlie,
Did you put the MRA spoiler on an NTX shield? Did you use the sport or tour version? This link from MRA's website says that either one will work on the NTX windshield:
https://www.mrashop.de/erp/catalog/n...N_KEY.offset=0
Do you have any pics of your setup?
I tried the MRA spoiler on my NTX windscreen...did not like it. I was using the clamp attachment and that added enough weight that the whole rig was ungainly..lots of bouncing around in the windstream. I'd like to get rid of the spoiler..make me an offer and don't even bother to be generous.

Peter Y.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:45 PM   #5631
Adam R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
Yes, the cables from the twist grip run to a computer which then operates the throttle bodies by a servo motor. This would be fine if they programmed it to be a direct 1:1 reaction.
It would rather miss the point though - the reason for RBW is to better match throttle movement to desired effect rather than rider movement - it's exactly the same design principle as going from slide carbs to CV carbs.

Of course, that depends on very clever programming and adaptive control...

I love the cables on my Guzzi ;)

But the new V7s benefit from their new system so I'm told ...
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Old 06-25-2013, 03:29 PM   #5632
Lomax
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I have a project for you special people out there.

I have noticed while riding on dirt raods and trails that rocks keep making really weird noises as they get forced between the front fender and tire. I don't really want a high fender but someone make a kit to raise it about an inch.

Marc
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:28 PM   #5633
danketchpel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam R View Post
It would rather miss the point though - the reason for RBW is to better match throttle movement to desired effect rather than rider movement.
I think the primary reason we are seeing RBW is for electronic rider aids, traction control and cruise control. Deep in the shadows is also an insurance industry desire for "no wheelie" control disguised as "traction control".

The race teams developed it to help manage 250+ hp in the corners. The insurance companies love it, it removes the hooligan factor. One has to ask why you need more hp if it's only going to be removed electronically when you want it? Just go ride a KLR and be done with it. The Euro uber safety conscious Gov'ts have pushed to make ABS mandatory and they are on track with traction (er hooligan) control also. One of the reasons ABS can't be switched off permanently is to satisfy Euro regs.

But in response to the statement, I feel it's impossible for an engineer to program in the proper "desired" effect that works in all conditions for all riders. When I rode the Tenere the "desired" effect wasn't even close to what I wanted and so non linear (sometimes too little, other times more than I expected) as to make riding the bike more difficult.

Personally, I'd prefer old school 100% rider control for everything, it's what our brain, reflexes, and riding experience is for.

OK,......... rant over. At some point I'll probably have to ride "vintage" bikes to keep my 100% rider control.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:04 PM   #5634
danketchpel
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Has anybody had trouble with either the clutch or side stand interlock switches? I had the situation today where I started the bike then went to kick the side stand up and the engine died. I went to restart it and the gauges came up normal but no action from the starter button, very scary.

I mucked about and it appeared cycling the clutch lever in/out fixed it, but I'm not positive. I plan to bypass both of those switches tonight as I've done on every other bike I've owned. I will also double check the battery and ground connections. I had tightened all of those not long ago.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:44 PM   #5635
James Adams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
Has anybody had trouble with either the clutch or side stand interlock switches?
Never had any issues with these.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:07 PM   #5636
kirb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
Has anybody had trouble with either the clutch or side stand interlock switches? I had the situation today where I started the bike then went to kick the side stand up and the engine died. I went to restart it and the gauges came up normal but no action from the starter button, very scary.

I mucked about and it appeared cycling the clutch lever in/out fixed it, but I'm not positive. I plan to bypass both of those switches tonight as I've done on every other bike I've owned. I will also double check the battery and ground connections. I had tightened all of those not long ago.
That's odd because it shouldn't kill the bike unless you have it in gear, side stand down. Were you in neutral when you kicked the stand up? I wouldn't assume it's the side stand.

I would lean more to the neutral switch (or connectors) if you were in neutral when you kicked the stand up. Could be either one...both should be easy to bypass in a pinch.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:41 PM   #5637
Tex n Bundy
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Another New Stelvio

G'day Guy's, I have been reading through as many previous posts as possible along with every road test so I could get a feel for the '13 NTX Stelvio. I was offered either an Aprilia or a Guzzi from our Aust' Importer to carry out the Philanthropic work my dog & I do for Project Kid Safe and the Prostate Cancer Foundation of Aust'. My design brief was simple, a long range tank, shaft drive, dirt road capable, reasonable handling and the ability to eat many miles in some comfort and in minimal time. Obviously the Stelvio was a "no brainer".
We pick it up tomorrow. We could have any colour we wanted as long as it was black!! For Project Kid Safe it will be getting re-painted to Yellow & then signwritten. Bundy & I have just stepped off a Hayabusa (350,000klms) however, we are not new to ADV' Bikes, having owned several GS's and a few trail bikes. Bundy, in her own right, has covered over 650,000klms on bikes and is the fastest dog in the world on a bike at 283kph. It is hoped we can bring some trips, trials and tribulations to this forum as we get aquainted with the big girl. We currently average the most klm's on a bike in Australia each year at around 80,000klm's. I hope the Guzzi is up for it! I will post up some pic's sometime tomorrow after we take delivery. Thank you all for the informative posts and I hope we can bring some smiles and positive info' to this great site.
Cheers, Tex & Bundy
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Old 06-26-2013, 12:27 AM   #5638
Adam R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
I think the primary reason we are seeing RBW is for electronic rider aids, traction control and cruise control. Deep in the shadows is also an insurance industry desire for "no wheelie" control disguised as "traction control".

The race teams developed it to help manage 250+ hp in the corners. The insurance companies love it, it removes the hooligan factor. One has to ask why you need more hp if it's only going to be removed electronically when you want it? Just go ride a KLR and be done with it. The Euro uber safety conscious Gov'ts have pushed to make ABS mandatory and they are on track with traction (er hooligan) control also. One of the reasons ABS can't be switched off permanently is to satisfy Euro regs.
No, that's not the case - lots of RBW bikes can hooligan around just fine. RSV-4s are not designed to be eurocrat friendly in the least!! :) It's about better engine management with the primary aim of good response with fewer emissions, emission control drive forward the technology, not a desire to reduce speed, they gave up on that a while ago now. I have not come across any evidence to suggest european legislation has anything to do with ABS not being switch off-able either?

Quote:
Originally Posted by danketchpel View Post
But in response to the statement, I feel it's impossible for an engineer to program in the proper "desired" effect that works in all conditions for all riders. When I rode the Tenere the "desired" effect wasn't even close to what I wanted and so non linear (sometimes too little, other times more than I expected) as to make riding the bike more difficult.

Personally, I'd prefer old school 100% rider control for everything, it's what our brain, reflexes, and riding experience is for.

OK,......... rant over. At some point I'll probably have to ride "vintage" bikes to keep my 100% rider control.
Absolutely, although I'm an advocate of technology and have been fairly involved with keeping up with it, I become increasingly enamoured of simple. I increasingly like metal rather than plastic and mechanical over electronic. They all seem like solutions to problems that didn't really exist. Well, not for me, I don't want an engine revving to 120,000rpm, I just like the grunt that comes from good old fashioned cubes!
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:17 AM   #5639
danketchpel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirb View Post
That's odd because it shouldn't kill the bike unless you have it in gear, side stand down. Were you in neutral when you kicked the stand up? I wouldn't assume it's the side stand.

I would lean more to the neutral switch (or connectors) if you were in neutral when you kicked the stand up. Could be either one...both should be easy to bypass in a pinch.
I suspect maybe one of the switches didn't work quite right, neutral/side stand.
I bypassed both the clutch & side stand switches last night. I made short jumper leads with the corresponding terminals and plugged them into the connectors and put shrink tubing on it to keep it secure.

The connector for the clutch is under the right side panel.





The sidestand connector is just behind the starter motor.

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Old 06-26-2013, 06:31 AM   #5640
danketchpel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam R View Post
No, that's not the case - lots of RBW bikes can hooligan around just fine. RSV-4s are not designed to be eurocrat friendly in the least!! :) It's about better engine management with the primary aim of good response with fewer emissions, emission control drive forward the technology, not a desire to reduce speed, they gave up on that a while ago now. I have not come across any evidence to suggest european legislation has anything to do with ABS not being switch off-able either?
Today...... this is where it's headed.

http://rideapart.com/2010/10/the-fac...witchable-abs/


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam R View Post
They all seem like solutions to problems that didn't really exist. Well, not for me,
My sentiments exactly. In racing it used to be 100% rider skill, now much of it is how good your software engineers are.
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