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Old 06-25-2013, 05:27 PM   #2641
ttpete
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Don't forget, they're angry that someone is actually getting off the couch, and doing something about their fitness, or lack thereof, increasing the self loathing...
Things have really changed in cycling. When I was riding 25 years ago, nobody I knew had this level of arrogance, not even a co-worker who regularly rode centuries on Sunday mornings.

This right here is why cyclists are having problems on the road today.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:41 PM   #2642
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Originally Posted by ShardPhoenix View Post
Paul, I wasn't in a cage.. Was riding my motorcycle, which happens to me my daily commute-mobile.

From what I saw of the shoulder, because I looked to see if there was a reason the cyclists were opting to not move over for a short bit to help ease the slight cluster fuck that was going on, I didn't see anything that would have made their mountain bikes spontaneously burst into flames or shred their tires. Not hard to do when you're only going 10mph and you're wondering why a couple of cyclists weren't doing their part to help maintain harmony on the roadway.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but please don't question a scenario when you weren't there to see what was going on. Bottom line was, there was little to prevent the two cyclists from, at the very least, switching into single file in order to create more breathing room for everyone. It's what I would have done if I had been riding a bicycle in that scenario, because I wouldn't want to get run over or be the catalyst that caused some impatient fuckwit to do something that ended up in a head on collision with another car.
There are no shortage of militant asshole vehicular cyclists out there. When people mention, as you did, something that looks like douchy behavior, I like to enumerate the legitimate reasons that may explain their behavior.

I would like to mention another reason cyclists might avoid shoulders. The shoulder may be generally good, but every half mile or so there may be glass, nails or other threats. It can be more dangerous to move in and out of the lane than just to stay in it. If I am on the shoulder and come up on a broken bottle, how should I reenter the right of way. Wait for it to clear? Move out into the lane other traffic be damned?

In the scenario you described, had the shoulder been littered with debris, I may have been as far out into the lane as the outermost of the two riders riding side by side, in effect taking up as much space as they did. In areas with bad sight lines and narrow lanes, I assert the lane as mine to discourage someone from trying to pass too closely. I have found that if I try to hug the fog line people will pass me much more closely than they will if I move well out into the lane. Often dangerously close. I can understand why riders might ride side by side on narrow roadways with poor sight lines. It actually makes it easier for cagers to pass them than if they were riding a safe distance one behind the other while "taking the lane."

It doesn't sound like the case where you were though. If you want to throw up a google satellite image of the area in question, I might be able to shed more informed light on the situation.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:44 PM   #2643
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Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Things have really changed in cycling. When I was riding 25 years ago, nobody I knew had this level of arrogance, not even a co-worker who regularly rode centuries on Sunday mornings.

This right here is why cyclists are having problems on the road today.
I don't understand. Can you explain that for me?
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:51 PM   #2644
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Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
I don't understand. Can you explain that for me?
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:52 PM   #2645
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Originally Posted by ShardPhoenix View Post
Paul, I wasn't in a cage.. Was riding my motorcycle, which happens to me my daily commute-mobile.

From what I saw of the shoulder, because I looked to see if there was a reason the cyclists were opting to not move over for a short bit to help ease the slight cluster fuck that was going on, I didn't see anything that would have made their mountain bikes spontaneously burst into flames or shred their tires. Not hard to do when you're only going 10mph and you're wondering why a couple of cyclists weren't doing their part to help maintain harmony on the roadway.

I understand the point you're trying to make, but please don't question a scenario when you weren't there to see what was going on. Bottom line was, there was little to prevent the two cyclists from, at the very least, switching into single file in order to create more breathing room for everyone. It's what I would have done if I had been riding a bicycle in that scenario, because I wouldn't want to get run over or be the catalyst that caused some impatient fuckwit to do something that ended up in a head on collision with another car.
What you see at 8mph is a lot different that what you see at 30mph. Trust me on this one.
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Old 06-25-2013, 05:53 PM   #2646
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Inferiority complex?





And yeah, us cyclists know there are tons of douchebag cyclists. Please don't take it out on us all. There are douchebag motorcyclists and we all hope that big dumb cagers don't take it out on us in that arena either.

Same same, just different tribes picking on each other.
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Old 06-25-2013, 06:18 PM   #2647
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That was a perfect explanation.
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:36 PM   #2648
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Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
Things have really changed in cycling. When I was riding 25 years ago, nobody I knew had this level of arrogance, not even a co-worker who regularly rode centuries on Sunday mornings.

This right here is why cyclists are having problems on the road today.


The problem isn't just the cyclists. It's people who have a me first, get the F out of my way attitude. And I admit, I'm guilty sometimes. And your friend must have ridden fast centuries!
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Old 06-25-2013, 07:46 PM   #2649
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OK, that is funny! Kind of what the general public see the cyclist is like, false as it may be.

Jim
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Old 06-25-2013, 08:22 PM   #2650
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During the Race Across America that just concluded last week, a home owner who didn't like cyclists on "his" road decided to take matters into his own hands and started shooting at them. Yeah, with a real rifle. Luckily last I heard he is still in jail and he didn't actually hit anyone. Hope he stays there for a long time.


The real issue in this thread is the lumping of people into groups that they may or may not fit. You ride a bicycle or a motorcycle or drive a cage and you are lumped into a group. Once you are lumped into a group you are suddenly accused of the same transgressions as the most egregious offenders of that group. Ride a Harley, you're a Hells Angel, ride a sport bike, you're a squid... I ride a $10k road bike 10-15k miles a year, wear tight fitting cycling clothes and shave my legs (and am not gay). I wave and am pleasant with passing motorists and in the last 20 years have had a whopping three run-ins with people in cars. To be honest I take offense to be lumped into the category that many people want to lump me in but I understand that the reason they do it. They do it because they're lazy and don't want to take the time to evaluate every situation on it's own merits. That's unfortunate and I really don't see that changing. Ignorance and laziness are just things we all have to live with...
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:26 PM   #2651
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Originally Posted by Homey View Post
During the Race Across America that just concluded last week, a home owner who didn't like cyclists on "his" road decided to take matters into his own hands and started shooting at them. Yeah, with a real rifle. Luckily last I heard he is still in jail and he didn't actually hit anyone. Hope he stays there for a long time.


The real issue in this thread is the lumping of people into groups that they may or may not fit. You ride a bicycle or a motorcycle or drive a cage and you are lumped into a group. Once you are lumped into a group you are suddenly accused of the same transgressions as the most egregious offenders of that group. Ride a Harley, you're a Hells Angel, ride a sport bike, you're a squid... I ride a $10k road bike 10-15k miles a year, wear tight fitting cycling clothes and shave my legs (and am not gay). I wave and am pleasant with passing motorists and in the last 20 years have had a whopping three run-ins with people in cars. To be honest I take offense to be lumped into the category that many people want to lump me in but I understand that the reason they do it. They do it because they're lazy and don't want to take the time to evaluate every situation on it's own merits. That's unfortunate and I really don't see that changing. Ignorance and laziness are just things we all have to live with...
Welcome to the internet, where moderate thinking is strictly prohibited! You are either with us or against us, there is no middle ground!

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Old 06-25-2013, 10:35 PM   #2652
kbasa
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Originally Posted by Homey View Post
During the Race Across America that just concluded last week, a home owner who didn't like cyclists on "his" road decided to take matters into his own hands and started shooting at them. Yeah, with a real rifle. Luckily last I heard he is still in jail and he didn't actually hit anyone. Hope he stays there for a long time.


The real issue in this thread is the lumping of people into groups that they may or may not fit. You ride a bicycle or a motorcycle or drive a cage and you are lumped into a group. Once you are lumped into a group you are suddenly accused of the same transgressions as the most egregious offenders of that group. Ride a Harley, you're a Hells Angel, ride a sport bike, you're a squid... I ride a $10k road bike 10-15k miles a year, wear tight fitting cycling clothes and shave my legs (and am not gay). I wave and am pleasant with passing motorists and in the last 20 years have had a whopping three run-ins with people in cars. To be honest I take offense to be lumped into the category that many people want to lump me in but I understand that the reason they do it. They do it because they're lazy and don't want to take the time to evaluate every situation on it's own merits. That's unfortunate and I really don't see that changing. Ignorance and laziness are just things we all have to live with...
Well put, sir.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:23 AM   #2653
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Originally Posted by Homey View Post
During the Race Across America that just concluded last week, a home owner who didn't like cyclists on "his" road decided to take matters into his own hands and started shooting at them. Yeah, with a real rifle. Luckily last I heard he is still in jail and he didn't actually hit anyone. Hope he stays there for a long time.


The real issue in this thread is the lumping of people into groups that they may or may not fit. You ride a bicycle or a motorcycle or drive a cage and you are lumped into a group. Once you are lumped into a group you are suddenly accused of the same transgressions as the most egregious offenders of that group. Ride a Harley, you're a Hells Angel, ride a sport bike, you're a squid... I ride a $10k road bike 10-15k miles a year, wear tight fitting cycling clothes and shave my legs (and am not gay). I wave and am pleasant with passing motorists and in the last 20 years have had a whopping three run-ins with people in cars. To be honest I take offense to be lumped into the category that many people want to lump me in but I understand that the reason they do it. They do it because they're lazy and don't want to take the time to evaluate every situation on it's own merits. That's unfortunate and I really don't see that changing. Ignorance and laziness are just things we all have to live with...
Great post Homey. This tendancy towards polarization is rampant throughout society, and I'm sure there's lots of books on the topic. Each side blames the other.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:35 AM   #2654
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Originally Posted by Homey View Post
During the Race Across America that just concluded last week, a home owner who didn't like cyclists on "his" road decided to take matters into his own hands and started shooting at them. Yeah, with a real rifle. Luckily last I heard he is still in jail and he didn't actually hit anyone. Hope he stays there for a long time.

While this fuckstain took his distatste for cyclists to the extreme, it's sub-humans like this that shape the attitudes and behavior of cyclists. There are no shortage of people and motorists who have an unhealthy level of contempt for cyclists. It takes but one to represent a serious threat to a cyclist's safety. That's why cyclists become militant and obstinate. Remember that next time you start passing judgment on a cyclist. It is likely that he has had several motorists purposefully jeopardize his safety. All because they didn't like his lycra shorts, or his team jersey, or the fact that they had to move an extra 3 feet to the left to pass, or some other equally fucking childish reason.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:36 AM   #2655
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Originally Posted by Dranrab Luap View Post
While this fuckstain took his distatste for cyclists to the extreme, it's sub-humans like this that shape the attitudes and behavior of cyclists. There are no shortage of people and motorists who have an unhealthy level of contempt for cyclists. It takes but one to represent a serious threat to a cyclist's safety. That's why cyclists become militant and obstinate. Remember that next time you start passing judgment on a cyclist. It is likely that he has had several motorists purposefully jeopardize his safety. All because they didn't like his lycra shorts, or his team jersey, or the fact that they had to move an extra 3 feet to the left to pass, or some other equally fucking childish reason.
BUT, the attitude can be controlled from both sides. Even if all non cyclists instantly started being good, that wouldn't suddenly fix the cyclist's attitudes. In other words, it is a self perpetuating cycle of poor manners and loathing on both sides.

But, as said, each side tends to lay total blame for their hate on the other, so no middle ground is achievable.

Jim
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