ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-01-2013, 11:52 PM   #196
100mpg
This sentance intent
 
100mpg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: ionally finished in this space.
Oddometer: 16,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind_Rider View Post
The Zero will pass the 4,000 mile mark tomorrow.

Still the bike is perfect. No charging issues, no startup failures, perfect throttle response.

I did have to put some air in the tires today... what a pain keeping this motorcycle tuned up!
If your splurged on nitrogen for the tires, maybe there would be no maintenance at all?
I am surprised it lasts longer in the dirt then on pavement. That shows how much I really know about electric. I understand that it is spinning at a higher RPM but I also think the demands of the dirt and hills would be increased...
__________________
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth" - Steve McQueen
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK (8255). DSI #694
100mpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 07:12 AM   #197
Wind_Rider OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Wind_Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Idaho
Oddometer: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by 100mpg View Post
I am surprised it lasts longer in the dirt then on pavement. That shows how much I really know about electric. I understand that it is spinning at a higher RPM but I also think the demands of the dirt and hills would be increased...
This is speed driven. It takes more juice to go faster and riding on dirt roads my speed is lower and range increases; even with a lot of hills.
Wind_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2013, 09:28 AM   #198
protomech
Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Oddometer: 25
15 mph on dirt probably uses more energy than 15 mph on pavement, but 35-55 mph on pavement will use more than both.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
protomech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 07:36 PM   #199
Wind_Rider OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Wind_Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Idaho
Oddometer: 304
Zero in the HEAT

It has been really hot here this week with near record temps. A few days ago it was 110 deg F.

Li batteries like to be warm but not too hot. The Zero motorcycle's BMS manages the charger to reduce charge current when it is above 87 degrees. I noticed that it takes longer to charge up now that it is so hot but it still tops up while I am working and is full of energy for the trip home.

I have ridden now for 20 mile stretches at 70 -75 MPH during 100+ degree weather and neither the motor nor controller has warned for overtemp or shutdown. There is a temp warning Light on the dash but despite my "high" speed riding on the freeway in the painful heat it never lit up.

I continue to enjoy NOT buying gasoline on my commute. I continue to wish that I could take longer pleasure rides. I may have to rent an ICE bike for a weekend before the season is over to get my day long ride fix in. Those are the joys and pains of riding only electric for this season.
Wind_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 05:02 PM   #200
Wind_Rider OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Wind_Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Idaho
Oddometer: 304
Lightning Electric Motorcycle Wins at Pikes Peak

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/07...kes-peak-2013/

Also interesting, it was fueled by the sun.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/7/prweb10894736.htm

There were some Zeros at the race as well but the Lightening was just way more powerful and faster.
Wind_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 05:45 PM   #201
100mpg
This sentance intent
 
100mpg's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: ionally finished in this space.
Oddometer: 16,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind_Rider View Post
It has been really hot here this week with near record temps. A few days ago it was 110 deg F.
did someone leave the heat on? that is only good for snakes and lizards. and they probably hide also!
__________________
"I'd rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than in any city on Earth" - Steve McQueen
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-TALK (8255). DSI #694
100mpg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 08:06 PM   #202
sendler
Studly Adventurer
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Oddometer: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind_Rider View Post
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/07...kes-peak-2013/

the Lightening was just way more powerful and faster.
And more expensive. $39,000.
sendler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2013, 09:22 PM   #203
MrBob
Jambo!
 
MrBob's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Boulderish, CO
Oddometer: 7,367
I really appreciate your sharing your experiences with this bike. I'm totally on board with the idea and would have a Zero tomorrow if I had the cash for one. Sometimes, while riding down the canyons around here, I'll shut off the engine of my DR and just listen to the quiet.
Arguments over the source and amount of power needed to recharge EV's are just the old making way for the new. Electric vehicles use sustainable sources of energy to recharge and there's no getting around that. Energy sources like coal are finite but EV's use a variety of energy sources, some of them not finite. My ICE uses gasoline - period. And, who could possibly doubt that operating ranges won't be continuously increasing?
I am curious though, could you wire up 12v options like a Stebel horn and heated grips?
__________________
"When I was younger I was afraid I'd die riding now that I'm old and falling apart, I'm afraid I won't."
bwanacswan's dad
MrBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 07:40 PM   #204
Wind_Rider OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Wind_Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Idaho
Oddometer: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
And more expensive. $39,000.
Yes, well, speed comes at a price.

I would love to take one for a spin!
Wind_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2013, 07:51 PM   #205
Wind_Rider OP
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Wind_Rider's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: Idaho
Oddometer: 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBob View Post
I really appreciate your sharing your experiences with this bike.
No problem, happy to do it.... when I was considering the move to electric I found precious little in terms of owner reviews so I thought it might be interesting to others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBob View Post
My ICE uses gasoline - period. And, who could possibly doubt that operating ranges won't be continuously increasing?
Sadly, from what I have read, the "easy" advances in LI battery technology have been made and EV manufacturers are only looking to find marginal gains in the next couple of years. We really need a breakthrough. If battery energy density could increase 4X and prices could move 4X less, electric motorcycles would be really compelling for a lot of riders.

I think it will happen in time, but not next year.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBob View Post
I am curious though, could you wire up 12v options like a Stebel horn and heated grips?
Yes, no problem at all. The Zero already has a DC/DC converter on board that puts out 12V DC for all standard electrics like headlight, blinkers, tail light, etc. I will probably be adding some grip heaters this fall.
Wind_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 05:01 AM   #206
protomech
Adventurer
 
Joined: May 2013
Oddometer: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind_Rider View Post
Sadly, from what I have read, the "easy" advances in LI battery technology have been made and EV manufacturers are only looking to find marginal gains in the next couple of years. We really need a breakthrough. If battery energy density could increase 4X and prices could move 4X less, electric motorcycles would be really compelling for a lot of riders.

I think it will happen in time, but not next year.
I doubt we'll see production bikes using cells with Envia-type gains next year, but in the next few years I think we'll see dramatic improvements in weight, volume, and cost. Both lithium-sulfur and Envia's lithium-manganese are feasible near-term improvements.

Even without density improvements, weight and volume are "okay" now. Zero has a 380 pound 10 kWh bike with 70 miles highway range; 140 pounds of the weight are the internal battery modules. It should be feasible to build a 550-600 pound 20 kWh bike. It would be a little larger, but the Zero is not a large bike as is. 140 miles of highway range, or 200+ miles with aerodynamic fairings (recharge in 1 hour on CHAdeMO) and suddenly the range issue becomes somewhat less pressing.

So what stops Zero from making a bike like that? Cost, and anticipated volume.

Cost is really three components: cell cost, assembly cost, volume scaling (or lack there of).

Cell cost will drop over time, no doubt. Only question is how fast and when.

Assembly cost will drop as the process becomes more automated. Automation requires significant up-front capital and scale (and probably also using the same pack design for several years .. Zero has made significant changes to their packs for 4 years running).

Scale is another big issue. Motorcycles aren't huge sellers in America; I think we bought 800k units in total last year. Electrics are *approaching* 1% .. significant room to grow no doubt.

But then you look at cars.. we bought around 12M cars last year. Tesla's on track to sell 20k Model S @ $60-100k this year.

It's simply going to be much easier to build out in scale with an EV cars. Unless the motorcycle companies can buy modules from the car manufacturers, I think the assembly cost is likely to remain somewhat high.

Tesla is really driving improvements along all three axes. Estimates of the costs for a Tesla assembled pack range from $200/kWh to $400/kWh. Those type of costs would put manufacturer cost for a 20 kWh bike battery at $4-8k.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...at-it-may-cost

Imagine if one of the bike manufacturers (perhaps not Zero or Brammo) partnered with Tesla, and got access to the Supercharger network in the process.. 20 kWh faired bike with a 75% charge (150 miles) in ~20 minutes.

Could it happen? Sure. Will it happen? Probably not.. but it's fun to think about.
protomech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 05:30 AM   #207
Yossarian™
Deputy Cultural Attaché
 
Yossarian™'s Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: the 'Ha
Oddometer: 9,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind_Rider View Post
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/07...kes-peak-2013/

Also interesting, it was fueled by the sun.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/7/prweb10894736.htm

There were some Zeros at the race as well but the Lightening was just way more powerful and faster.
I had the good fortune to speak with Carlin Dunne and his team at the PPIHC, and learned a good deal about the Lightning bikes. They also had the Bonneville record holding bike side-by-side with the hill climb bike.

There's a LOT of energy in those batteries.
__________________
Successfully surviving motorcycling since 1976.
Yossarian™ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 08:44 AM   #208
sendler
Studly Adventurer
 
sendler's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY USA
Oddometer: 661
Quote:
Originally Posted by protomech View Post
but it's fun to think about.
LiFepo4 is very a reliable and dense chemistry right now in the AMP20 cells for instance but the price needs to come down. $1.00 per Whr for the ZERO packs is just a little too steep for most people.
sendler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2013, 05:17 PM   #209
(sp?)
flaming ahole ;)
 
(sp?)'s Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: Seattle, USA
Oddometer: 5,352
I should not have looked at this thread. 92 Nm of torque could make one do bad things.

very bad things...
__________________
Blue KTM Forum now!!!
--
'09 Husaberg FE570
'05 BMW R1200GS
(sp?) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2013, 12:11 AM   #210
Mr. Fisherman
Ray soon to be AWAY!
 
Mr. Fisherman's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: Packing the bus!
Oddometer: 10,528
Quote:
Originally Posted by (sp?) View Post
I should not have looked at this thread. 92 Nm of torque could make one do bad things.

very bad things...
There goes the neighborhood

Check out the Zero FX...
Mr. Fisherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014