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Old 06-26-2013, 10:28 AM   #61
claude OP
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[QUOTE=HogWild;21724535]Back to the tire pressure and heat issue...

A while back I tested a product called Tire Balls. The purpose of this product is to keep you going after you get a puncture. Every minute of lost time is important in racing! The idea is that a nail or other puncture will only knock out one "ball". All the others will shift a bit to take up the gap from a flat ball, and you just keep on riding.

These balls are like round inner tubes, but they are made of thin plastic rather than rubber. You pump them up, pop them in the tire, then mount the tire as usual.

In my early testing everything was great, no problems! In a later test I was out in the Death Valley area in July, riding dirt and pavement. After a fast run on the pavement I noticed the rear tire seemed to be getting out of balance. It eventually went pretty much flat. I limped back several miles to my truck on that flat rear, pretty much destroying the tire in the process. When I took the tire off the rim, all I found was a huge clump of melted and mangled black plastic.

The rear tire had gotten so hot, those tire balls completely melted. The point is, what worked great one day in one set of conditions turned into a complete mess in other conditions. The heat buildup in the tire on pavement on a very hot day turned a good setup into a bad setup. I was probably getting GREAT traction with that hot soft rubber. But take that same setup on a dry but freezing road and I could be sliding all over the place on cold hard rubber.

BTW, I think Tire Balls are a great product that works great in the right conditions. My rig and conditions just were not the right place for them.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Went trough an experiment with a foam type 'inner tube' years back. I think they may be used in some heavy equipment today but not, as far as I know In other applications.
My main concern thru this discussion is folks running too low a pressure on these outfits. Most seldom do much hardcore type real OFF ROAD type riding and to roll a tore bead off the rim due to low pressures can be a disaster. That is/ was my main point and will continue to be. Do I see a bead lock on that rim you pictured? Trust me on the sprint cars we ran tire pressures down to 9 pounds on the right rear and less on the left rear. Screws through the bead was the answer back in the day prior to bead locks. Low pressure? You betcha..and even then you better keep the thing turning when blasting into the turns to keep it from rolling under lol. tires are not only a vertical spring but can be a side to side spring when flexing due to side loads working on them.
Yes a tire is a spring so to speak. Anyone ever spent much time on an old school hardtail solo bike years back? Lowering pressure was a good thing for the ride..lol.
With that being said ,Again, we are talking , in this thread, from my perspective sidecar outfits NOT SOLO BIKES.
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:19 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claude View Post
Went trough an experiment with a foam type 'inner tube' years back. I think they may be used in some heavy equipment today but not, as far as I know In other applications.
They (tire mousse) are very popular in cross-country rally racing, like Dakar. But they have the same problem as the tire balls, that is they melt when they get too hot. You have to keep your highway speed reasonable to keep the heat down. Could be an interesting option for a Ural, ha ha! I haven't seen them available for car tires though.


http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...Foam-Tube.aspx
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Old 06-26-2013, 01:37 PM   #63
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Friction between the tire balls or the mousse and the tire is a major reason for the failures. Lots of lube between the two goes a long way towards preventing meltdowns. However, extended high speeds on a highway is pretty much a death warrant with either of these systems.

Sheet metal screws through the side of the rim into the tire sidewall was common on desert racing bikes back in the early 70's. Years ago Sun rims used to come with little pins that you placed into holes on the inside of the rim at the bead that acted as an anti-spin system.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:01 PM   #64
claude OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogWild View Post
They (tire mousse) are very popular in cross-country rally racing, like Dakar. But they have the same problem as the tire balls, that is they melt when they get too hot. You have to keep your highway speed reasonable to keep the heat down. Could be an interesting option for a Ural, ha ha! I haven't seen them available for car tires though.


http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...Foam-Tube.aspx
Yep that looks like the item. Not really sure why it never took hold with car tires could have been numerous reasons from financial to structural.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:06 PM   #65
claude OP
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Here are some pictures of the bead lock type system I was talking about earlier for running low air pressures.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/search...ery=bead+locks
http://static.speedwaymotors.com/ima...ow-2531510.gif
They can be put on both sides of the rim.
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claude screwed with this post 06-26-2013 at 02:21 PM
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:13 PM   #66
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We use bead lock rims on the cars we race in Baja and the pre-runners used to practice (aka: pre-run) with. However, bead lock rims are not DOT approved for highway use and will have "Not for highway use" stamped on them.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:20 PM   #67
claude OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strong Bad View Post
We use bead lock rims on the cars we race in Baja and the pre-runners used to practice (aka: pre-run) with. However, bead lock rims are not DOT approved for highway use and will have "Not for highway use" stamped on them.
Agreed. I mentioned them as they are a means to run lower air pressure and keep the tire on the rim. My case here is that low tire pressure to the extreme is not the best way to go on the roads most travel with the tires we typically speak of here.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:42 PM   #68
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Hmmmm !


Well damn the pusher Nitto SN2(center tire) seems to be out of round and wearing funny, if it continues at this I'll be back to the Conti Wintercontact (left tire)which is suppose to be harder and more all season orientated.DB
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Old 07-02-2013, 07:43 AM   #69
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Yokohama tire

Anyone had anything to do with Yokohama Avid Envigor tires ? They are available in 175/65/15 and 145/65 and all season
http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/detail/avid_envigor
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:47 PM   #70
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My pusher car tire seems to have issues its a 175/65/15 Nitto SN2 winter tire,the center is going away on at least a third of the tire, like it was out of round or over inflated, it has been under inflated as I had a slow leak for a bit.It maybe has 3 k miles, I'm disappointed the Blizzak on the front is doing wonderfully.DB
I can't stop myself I ordered another Blizzak last night as I don't like questionable tires, when your used to buying tourances car tires seem like a deal.DB
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davebig screwed with this post 07-04-2013 at 07:50 AM
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:54 PM   #71
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Blizzaks front and rear

The Nitto SN2 pusher is gone replaced by a WS70 Blizzak both 175/65's the Nitto didn't last 5k miles about 1/3 of the blocks just went away as though it had been over inflated and very out of round.I like the winter tires as I ride allot of places where and extra edge is cool, the Nitto had been cheap $70 free shipping maybe that is the problem.DB

On the Nitto the sipping in the center ridge and the white line blocks just went away and the rest of the tire was fine.
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Old 07-09-2013, 06:44 PM   #72
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Dead an Dying Nitto


If anyone had a clue as to why this happened please tell me.
It's probably the swaybars fault ! Damn the Dude and full speed ahead.DB
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:16 PM   #73
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Slight over inflation.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:06 PM   #74
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Slight over inflation.
+1

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Old 07-10-2013, 07:30 AM   #75
claude OP
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Play with the air pressure. Could be building up with heat if you are riding hard. Check cold and hot. Looks like you are running a Little harder into lefties and not right handers....lol. Swaybar? Yes unhook it and see what happens....but slow down ... just kidding.
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