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Old 07-04-2013, 05:05 AM   #346
Pantah
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Originally Posted by mike54 View Post
I do know that the pride and recognition I get from doing my best at my job is more important than any monetary compensation I could get. Not saying I'd work for free but then again, there are GP racers that do.
Interesting view. IMO, people who pursue highly paid careers are there to get paid. It's the most important part of their game. Getting paid is the only form of recognition that counts. Everything else is just 'noise'.

People who's priority is to feel good about themselves choose much less competitive careers. Careers where they are not measured by their market value.
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Old 07-04-2013, 05:14 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
Interesting view. IMO, people who pursue highly paid careers are there to get paid. It's the most important part of their game. Getting paid is the only form of recognition that counts. Everything else is just 'noise'.

People who's priority is to feel good about themselves choose much less competitive careers. Careers where they are not measured by their market value.
Valentino Rossi took a massive pay cut - and I do mean really massive - to return to Yamaha. He went back to Yamaha because he believed it was his best chance of winning (and Assen proved him right). I think that just about conclusively disproves the theory that money is the sole motivator.

People are motivated by a lot of things, but most of all, prestige. The reason that salaries among US CEOs have spiraled out of control has nothing to do with the absolute amount they earn, and more to do with their relative amounts. Their massive egos (just like professional sports stars) mean that they want to be paid more than the other guy. How much that is (above a certain minimum, of course) is irrelevant, it's about having MORE than the other guy. It's about winning.

Same with professional athletes. They go to teams either to establish their reputation in some way - the savior of a franchise, the only rider to win on X number of brands - or to try to win races and a championship. Money is one part of that recognition - Rossi left Yamaha because they wanted him to take a pay cut, while paying Lorenzo more - but the absolute quantities are not the main motivator.
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Old 07-04-2013, 06:29 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
Interesting view. IMO, people who pursue highly paid careers are there to get paid. It's the most important part of their game. Getting paid is the only form of recognition that counts. Everything else is just 'noise'.

People who's priority is to feel good about themselves choose much less competitive careers. Careers where they are not measured by their market value.
Motorcycle racing is barely a career at all, and far from a highly paid one.

It's a hobby. You get to the top of it only if you'd rather race than make money.

As I suspect you know perfectly well.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:14 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post

People are motivated by a lot of things, but most of all, prestige. The reason that salaries among US CEOs have spiraled out of control has nothing to do with the absolute amount they earn, and more to do with their relative amounts. Their massive egos (just like professional sports stars) mean that they want to be paid more than the other guy. How much that is (above a certain minimum, of course) is irrelevant, it's about having MORE than the other guy. It's about winning.

.
I don't think that's true, but that's for CSM not here. Both may be extraordinarily competitive though.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:34 AM   #350
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I don't think that's true, but that's for CSM not here. Both may be extraordinarily competitive though.
Agreed it's debatable. My point is that the competitive nature of both elite athletes and elite businesspeople is that they measure themselves against their rivals, first and foremost. Money is one way of measuring, in sports there are other ways of comparing and measuring relative performance.
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Old 07-04-2013, 10:04 AM   #351
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A realistic goal [on the Ducati] might be beating Pol and/or getting into QP 2 occasionally.
Fixed.
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:14 AM   #352
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A realistic goal [on the Ducati] might be beating Pol and/or getting into QP 2 occasionally.

Fixed.
Yes fair enough. I really like the guy and saw him podium at Indy; always hoping he'll get it happening.
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:32 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
Valentino Rossi took a massive pay cut - and I do mean really massive - to return to Yamaha. He went back to Yamaha because he believed it was his best chance of winning (and Assen proved him right). I think that just about conclusively disproves the theory that money is the sole motivator.

.
Valentino Rossi still got paid. According to Forbes, he still made over $20 million and is the highest paid rider in the sport. Regarding star pro athletes, money is still the primary measure of their status. When they can't get the contracts of the size they feel they are worth, they usually retire. Sure there are a few anomalies like Jaromir Jagr, but not many. If Peyton Manning couldn't get the headline deal last time around, I guarantee he wouldn't continue in the sport just to be a starting quarterback. Tom Brady is a little different in that he traditionally gets a big contract, then restructures it so the team can acquire or retain certain talents that he needs to perform well. But he's still one of the highest paid athletes in football.

I think winning a championship is probably most important for aging stars, so I agree with you on that front. They will accept less money in exchange for a better chance to finally win their first, or maybe one more ring. Perhaps Rossi fills that profile, but he still got paid richly.

No question in the executive suite. Bonus time is when everybody compares notes. If you are one of those looking for the gold ring and your bonus comes in under your rivals, you move on to a new suite somewhere else. At the end of your career, you get pushed out by the young lions coming up to claim their share. When that happens, you either retire or take on a hobby role to stay in the game. Some sort of emeritus position or maybe a top job in the minor leagues.

My point is that none of these people are social workers. Their compensation defines them.
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Old 07-06-2013, 04:43 AM   #354
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Motorcycle racing is barely a career at all, and far from a highly paid one.

It's a hobby. You get to the top of it only if you'd rather race than make money.

As I suspect you know perfectly well.
Yeah I know that first hand. Eventually you have to join society and get a real job.

Kind of painful watching some of the talent coming up forced to make the same choice.
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:43 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by Pantah View Post
Valentino Rossi still got paid. According to Forbes, he still made over $20 million and is the highest paid rider in the sport. Regarding star pro athletes, money is still the primary measure of their status. When they can't get the contracts of the size they feel they are worth, they usually retire.
Athletes are in a crossover zone between 'normal' highly paid people and entertainers. The lawyer, executive or hedge funder needs the massive payout for bragging rights among his peers, but the entertainer wants to be famous. Those craving fame wake up everyday thinking about how they can be more famous, not just richer (see Paris Hilton).

Rossi already has the money (and peer respect) so he is working on his legacy. That's why he went to Ducati in the first place - right?

If Yamaha offered him the #1 rider position, he would do it for free.
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:02 AM   #356
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Athletes are in a crossover zone between 'normal' highly paid people and entertainers. The lawyer, executive or hedge funder needs the massive payout for bragging rights among his peers, but the entertainer wants to be famous. Those craving fame wake up everyday thinking about how they can be more famous, not just richer (see Paris Hilton).

Rossi already has the money (and peer respect) so he is working on his legacy. That's why he went to Ducati in the first place - right?

If Yamaha offered him the #1 rider position, he would do it for free.

Good points, but Rossi will never ride for free as long as he is competitive.

He couldn't continue riding around the back on a Ducati, if for no other reason than the money would eventually dry up.

He's already better than Spies was on that bike and he's still gaining on it. Looking forward to a few more big battles out of him.
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:21 AM   #357
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Athletes are in a crossover zone between 'normal' highly paid people and entertainers. The lawyer, executive or hedge funder needs the massive payout for bragging rights among his peers, but the entertainer wants to be famous. Those craving fame wake up everyday thinking about how they can be more famous, not just richer (see Paris Hilton).

Rossi already has the money (and peer respect) so he is working on his legacy. That's why he went to Ducati in the first place - right?

If Yamaha offered him the #1 rider position, he would do it for free.
I was told by someone on Lorenzo's side of the garage that Yamaha aren't paying Rossi at all. Dorna is paying his wage.
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Old 07-06-2013, 09:54 AM   #358
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Valentino Rossi still got paid. According to Forbes, he still made over $20 million and is the highest paid rider in the sport.
I'm sure that number reflects the endorsement income as well as salary. While it seems VR is riding to prove something more than to get a fat check it is also true the best advertising and endorsement deals go to winners.
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Old 07-06-2013, 11:46 AM   #359
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I was told by someone on Lorenzo's side of the garage that Yamaha aren't paying Rossi at all. Dorna is paying his wage.
Humm... Do you think it's an accurate rumor?

I don't know the business like you do, but I am inclined to interpret "Dorna is paying [Rossi's] wage" as follows: Rossi is getting a direct cut of revenue from advertising and paid promotion, as opposed to a salary.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:57 PM   #360
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Humm... Do you think it's an accurate rumor?

I don't know the business like you do, but I am inclined to interpret "Dorna is paying [Rossi's] wage" as follows: Rossi is getting a direct cut of revenue from advertising and paid promotion, as opposed to a salary.
The person who told me that is in a position to know, but he is also in a position to want information to be spun a particular way. I believe him, but I wonder why he felt the need to tell me.

The way it was told to me, I understood to mean that he was being paid a salary by Dorna. Makes sense.
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