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Old 07-09-2013, 09:34 PM   #196
stevie88
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A glorious day today in sw Minnesota, riding my bike back to Texas and enjoying the countryside. Just look at these fields harvesting sunlight and putting renewable energy in your tanks and and grid as well as food on your table. This is as it should be.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:39 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by stevie88 View Post


A glorious day today in sw Minnesota, riding my bike back to Texas and enjoying the countryside. Just look at these fields harvesting sunlight and putting renewable energy in your tanks and and grid as well as food on your table. This is as it should be.
That shit is not fit for consumption through tank or belly.
They plant that shit and it kills the bees.
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Old 07-09-2013, 09:52 PM   #198
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That shit is not fit for consumption through tank or belly.
They plant that shit and it kills the bees.
Actually it's spraying certain insecticides that cause bee problems. GMO crops require fewer insecticide applications. Fewer often meaning none.
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Old 07-10-2013, 12:45 AM   #199
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Actually it's spraying certain insecticides that cause bee problems. GMO crops require fewer insecticide applications. Fewer often meaning none.
Bullshit.

The GM crops -- let's look at GM Bt maize and GM Bt cotton here -- are genetically modified to be pesticide (which includes all herbicides) resistant; to be correct, and I'll use one industry brand name here, they are GM Roundup Ready crops.

The crops themselves are not any more resistant to insect or competitive weed infestations, and were in fact designed primarily to be insecticide saturation resistant.
These GM crops were designed to be used in conjunction WITH pesticide use, and that use is increasing dramatically -- not decreasing.

In fact, American farms have applied 318 million more pounds of pesticide over the last 13 years of GM commercially sourced seeds.
In 2008 alone, GM crops required 26% more pounds of pesticide per acre, than fields planted with non-GM seed varieties.

And it's going to get nothing but worse from here on in -- most GM seed varieties are never allowed to naturally mutate and build a resistance to insects.
The weeds the pesticide/herbicides are applied to however, do mutate and have built up an alarming resistance to RoundUp.
This has led to Dow's development of a pesticide which now contains among other chemicals, 2,4-D34 which is a principle ingredient of the defoliant called 'Agent Orange'.
And last year Dow applied to the USDA to commercialize a 2,4-D tolerant GM Corn.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:14 AM   #200
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I've been testing the fuel in my area with one of these simple ethanol testers from Ebay
( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=121138347163)

So far all the regular gasoline (3) has 10% ethanol and all the high test (3) have 0% ethanol.

Maybe the blenders just put the ethanol in the regular lower grade which is their high volume seller? BTW, all the fuel comes in the same pipeline as pure gasoline.

Since you should get better MPG I'm thinking the high test is a better price performer?

Also tested two different stations that advertise ethanol free and they were correct. But why pay the premium for advertised " ethanol free" when high test appears to be "ethanol free"?

Some of you should get this tester ($10.99 free shipping) and report back your results. The alcohol in the up to 10% gas mixes with the water in the tester and raises the separation line between the water and gasoline to show the ethanol percentage. Simple test but works.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:33 PM   #201
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So far all the regular gasoline (3) has 10% ethanol and all the high test (3) have 0% ethanol.

.
That's interesting. Was this all the same brand of gas?
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:35 PM   #202
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.....and putting renewable energy in your tanks and and grid as well as food on your table. This is as it should be.
I've worked in the renewable energy business for the last 13 years. Ethanol sucks. Environmental nightmare. Corn for gas, take it up the ass.
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:58 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Barnone View Post
I've been testing the fuel in my area with one of these simple ethanol testers from Ebay
( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=121138347163)

So far all the regular gasoline (3) has 10% ethanol and all the high test (3) have 0% ethanol.

Maybe the blenders just put the ethanol in the regular lower grade which is their high volume seller? BTW, all the fuel comes in the same pipeline as pure gasoline.

Since you should get better MPG I'm thinking the high test is a better price performer?

Also tested two different stations that advertise ethanol free and they were correct. But why pay the premium for advertised " ethanol free" when high test appears to be "ethanol free"?

Some of you should get this tester ($10.99 free shipping) and report back your results. The alcohol in the up to 10% gas mixes with the water in the tester and raises the separation line between the water and gasoline to show the ethanol percentage. Simple test but works.
I've only done this a couple of times , but these are my findings as well.
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Old 07-10-2013, 05:08 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnone View Post
I've been testing the fuel in my area with one of these simple ethanol testers from Ebay
( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=121138347163)

So far all the regular gasoline (3) has 10% ethanol and all the high test (3) have 0% ethanol.

Maybe the blenders just put the ethanol in the regular lower grade which is their high volume seller? BTW, all the fuel comes in the same pipeline as pure gasoline.

Since you should get better MPG I'm thinking the high test is a better price performer?

Also tested two different stations that advertise ethanol free and they were correct. But why pay the premium for advertised " ethanol free" when high test appears to be "ethanol free"?

Some of you should get this tester ($10.99 free shipping) and report back your results. The alcohol in the up to 10% gas mixes with the water in the tester and raises the separation line between the water and gasoline to show the ethanol percentage. Simple test but works.
wow .. great info!

there's lots of times I cannot go to my favorite gas station without ethanol. pumping premium is about same costs as paying 20cents or so more at gas station without ethanol.

what a racket! successfully pulled off by the ethanol lobby... if a product cannot stand on it's own merits financially ... then it should fall and not be in the market place!

yet another example of the upper .01% enriching themselves further at taxpayer and public's expense.
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Old 07-10-2013, 11:08 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by IKIGAI View Post
Bullshit.

The GM crops -- let's look at GM Bt maize and GM Bt cotton here -- are genetically modified to be pesticide (which includes all herbicides) resistant; to be correct, and I'll use one industry brand name here, they are GM Roundup Ready crops.

The crops themselves are not any more resistant to insect or competitive weed infestations, and were in fact designed primarily to be insecticide saturation resistant.
These GM crops were designed to be used in conjunction WITH pesticide use, and that use is increasing dramatically -- not decreasing.

In fact, American farms have applied 318 million more pounds of pesticide over the last 13 years of GM commercially sourced seeds.
In 2008 alone, GM crops required 26% more pounds of pesticide per acre, than fields planted with non-GM seed varieties.

And it's going to get nothing but worse from here on in -- most GM seed varieties are never allowed to naturally mutate and build a resistance to insects.
The weeds the pesticide/herbicides are applied to however, do mutate and have built up an alarming resistance to RoundUp.
This has led to Dow's development of a pesticide which now contains among other chemicals, 2,4-D34 which is a principle ingredient of the defoliant called 'Agent Orange'.
And last year Dow applied to the USDA to commercialize a 2,4-D tolerant GM Corn.
I said insecticides, you said pesticides into which are lumped all chemicals applied to a crop. The various Bt GMO crops don't need insecticides to combat their primary insect pests. The beauty of this is that benefical bug populations don't get hammered by insecticides which then leads to a cycle of ever more insecticide applications....especially in cotton. We grow all GMO cotton, but we chose the GMO traits we need. Weed control is important so we select glyphosate tolerant varieties for all our fields and where we have particular weed issues we select seed that is resistant to 2 different herbicides. We don't use Bt genetics on all our cotton or corn acres because we don't need to. Cotton boll worms and corn ear worms, the same critter, no longer overwhelm the beneficial insects in our region because we no longer have to spray insecticides to control those guys. It's the ultimate Integrated Pest Mamagement system.

Btw, corn is naturally tolerant to 2,4-D as are wheat mad grain sorgum. 2,4-D kicks broad leaf plants in the nutz though. Weeds and insects continually evolve to changing environmental pressure, that's nothing new and only an idiot would expect a pesticide to remain viable indefinitely.

And what's this bullshit about "mutate to build a natural resistance to insects"? You must be insane. That is one of the dumber things I've read here and that is really saying something.
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Old 07-11-2013, 01:31 AM   #206
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just discovered this .. this is fucking insanity!!!

------------
Deficit hawks, environmentalists, and food processors are celebrating the expiration of the ethanol tax credit. This corporate handout gave $0.45 to ethanol producers for every gallon they produced and cost taxpayers $6 billion in 2011. So why did the powerful corn ethanol lobby let it expire without an apparent fight? The answer lies in legislation known as the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), which creates government-guaranteed demand that keeps corn prices high and generates massive farm profits. Removing the tax credit but keeping the RFS is like scraping a little frosting from the ethanol-boondoggle cake.
The RFS mandates that at least 37 percent of the 2011-12 corn crop be converted to ethanol and blended with the gasoline that powers our cars…[As a result] the current price of corn on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is about $6.50 per bushel—almost triple the pre-mandate level.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:34 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by _cy_ View Post
just discovered this .. this is fucking insanity!!!

------------
Deficit hawks, environmentalists, and food processors are celebrating the expiration of the ethanol tax credit. This corporate handout gave $0.45 to ethanol producers for every gallon they produced and cost taxpayers $6 billion in 2011. So why did the powerful corn ethanol lobby let it expire without an apparent fight? The answer lies in legislation known as the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), which creates government-guaranteed demand that keeps corn prices high and generates massive farm profits. Removing the tax credit but keeping the RFS is like scraping a little frosting from the ethanol-boondoggle cake.
The RFS mandates that at least 37 percent of the 2011-12 corn crop be converted to ethanol and blended with the gasoline that powers our cars…[As a result] the current price of corn on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is about $6.50 per bushel—almost triple the pre-mandate level.
Wrong again. The VEETC (Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit) provided a $0.45 tax credit for each gallon of ethanol used by the blender. The blenders are the gasoline distribution companies (big oil). My company, as a small producer (50mmgpy), did benefit from a subsidy that has long since expired. We also used to collect a few hundred k$ for the E85 that we blended (with straight run, or natural gasoline) and sold direct to stations that sell E85. The blenders, as soon as the VEETC expired, simply raised the price of gas, passing the bill to the consumer.

http://www.bioenergywiki.net/Volumet...ise_Tax_Credit

It all boils down to whether or not you believe that we should be trying to use a renewable source for a portion of our motor fuel. Ethanol is the only viable alternative at this point. It has its drawbacks, especially when derived from corn starch. Bio-butanol(sp?) would probably be a better alternative for blending with gasoline but the yeast & enzymes for conversion aren't ready yet (commercial plants just starting to scale up), same with cellulosic.

cheers,
melby
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pmelby screwed with this post 07-11-2013 at 02:41 AM Reason: added Wiki Link
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:08 AM   #208
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Wrong again. The VEETC (Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit) provided a $0.45 tax credit for each gallon of ethanol used by the blender. The blenders are the gasoline distribution companies (big oil). My company, as a small producer (50mmgpy), did benefit from a subsidy that has long since expired. We also used to collect a few hundred k$ for the E85 that we blended (with straight run, or natural gasoline) and sold direct to stations that sell E85. The blenders, as soon as the VEETC expired, simply raised the price of gas, passing the bill to the consumer.

http://www.bioenergywiki.net/Volumet...ise_Tax_Credit

It all boils down to whether or not you believe that we should be trying to use a renewable source for a portion of our motor fuel. Ethanol is the only viable alternative at this point. It has its drawbacks, especially when derived from corn starch. Bio-butanol(sp?) would probably be a better alternative for blending with gasoline but the yeast & enzymes for conversion aren't ready yet (commercial plants just starting to scale up), same with cellulosic.

cheers,
melby
do you dispute ethanol costs US tax payers some $6Billion last year and that legislation has now changed to below... this artificially inflates prices for corn which will increase Food costs for just about everyone.

"The RFS mandates that at least 37 percent of the 2011-12 corn crop be converted to ethanol and blended with the gasoline that powers our cars…[As a result] the current price of corn on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is about $6.50 per bushel—almost triple the pre-mandate level."

totally disagree ethanol is a viable alternative fuel ... NO fuel that cannot stand on it's own financial merits .. should be forced down on American consumers!!!

_cy_ screwed with this post 07-11-2013 at 03:15 AM
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:07 AM   #209
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do you dispute ethanol costs US tax payers some $6Billion last year and that legislation has now changed to below... this artificially inflates prices for corn which will increase Food costs for just about everyone.

"The RFS mandates that at least 37 percent of the 2011-12 corn crop be converted to ethanol and blended with the gasoline that powers our cars…[As a result] the current price of corn on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange is about $6.50 per bushel—almost triple the pre-mandate level."

totally disagree ethanol is a viable alternative fuel ... NO fuel that cannot stand on it's own financial merits .. should be forced down on American consumers!!!
Don't be an idiot. The tax credit ended 18 months ago and when it did fuel prices were raised by the distributors to make up the difference. The price of raw commodities has little to do with most food costs, most of the costs are in processing, packaging and distribution and ethanol helps reduce fuel costs. Take ethanol out of the picture and your fuel cost will jump.

It appears that you want farmers to go back to producing crops at below the cost of production prices and receive massive subsidies from the government and at the same time you would also have gasoline prices increase $1.50. That's sweet.

Your final statement is an exersise in concentrated stupid.
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:46 AM   #210
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It all boils down to whether or not you believe that we should be trying to use a renewable FOOD source for a portion of our motor fuel. Ethanol is the only viable alternative at this point. It has its drawbacks, especially when derived from corn starch. Bio-butanol(sp?) would probably be a better alternative for blending with gasoline but the yeast & enzymes for conversion aren't ready yet (commercial plants just starting to scale up), same with cellulosic.
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