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Old 07-19-2013, 11:18 AM   #16
mbrick
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Redrupert thanks for the suggestions on inserting the clip. I was going to try something along those lines. I did order a new one for the side I removed.

I agree, will probably insert the piston into the jug on the bench without a ring compressor, and have a friend help hold the jug while putting in the circlip.
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:08 PM   #17
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If you lay the engine on its side, with the cylinder and crankcase supported, its easy to offer up the rod to the piston and push in the pin/fit the clip.
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Old 07-20-2013, 02:37 PM   #18
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I just use needle nose pliers and twist the clip in....Am I bad...never had one come out...
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Old 07-23-2013, 03:36 AM   #19
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Peanuts said: If you lay the engine on its side, with the cylinder and crankcase supported, its easy to offer up the rod to the piston and push in the pin/fit the clip.

Charlie264 said: I just use needle nose pliers and twist the clip in....Am I bad...never had one come out...


You two guys generally provide good experience-based information, therefore please can you answer the question that I raised in this tread - look at post #1 to know it?

Thanks
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RedRupert screwed with this post 07-23-2013 at 05:03 AM
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Old 07-23-2013, 04:37 AM   #20
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I see you are having trouble getting inmates to answer your ACTUAL question

Its abit like emailing a part supplier and asking 3 or more questions.... more chance of winning lotto than getting 3 answers

My opinion is that there can be no possible downside to installing the piston from the bottom if you take appropriate care.
I have noticed that there are other strange assembly procedures in the workshop manual that are either bad translation or KTM techs taking the piss out of us. One of them is the assembly of the clutch.


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Old 07-23-2013, 04:58 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by rider911 View Post
I see you are having trouble getting inmates to answer your ACTUAL question

Its abit like emailing a part supplier and asking 3 or more questions.... more chance of winning lotto than getting 3 answers

My opinion is that there can be no possible downside to installing the piston from the bottom if you take appropriate care.
I have noticed that there are other strange assembly procedures in the workshop manual that are either bad translation or KTM techs taking the piss out of us. One of them is the assembly of the clutch.


.
Yes, yes, you're quite right!

I've received all sorts of not-needed advice, but no helpful answers to my question. I don't want to be warned about how difficult it is to install a piston clip when I can do it perfectly easily! I also don't want to be told that it is easier to leave the piston inside the cylinder or not - I'll decide that depending on my situation during that particular job.

I think you're close to the truth when you say KTM are taking the piss out of us in the manual! There are also quite a few mistakes. It's a rubbish manual when compared with some Jap factory manuals.

Cheers.
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:36 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRupert View Post
Peanuts said: If you lay the engine on its side, with the cylinder and crankcase supported, its easy to offer up the rod to the piston and push in the pin/fit the clip.

Charlie264 said: I just use needle nose pliers and twist the clip in....Am I bad...never had one come out...


You two guys generally provide good experience-based information, therefore please can you answer the question that I raised in this tread - look at post #1 to know it?

Thanks
I have the KTM sleeve tool for 95mm bores (525 motor) for fitting from the bottom, on other motors I always fit from the top using a ring compressor. The piston tilts quite easily when fitting from the bottom, but if fitting from the top the skirt keeps the piston aligned.
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Old 07-23-2013, 06:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Peanuts View Post
I have the KTM sleeve tool for 95mm bores (525 motor) for fitting from the bottom, on other motors I always fit from the top using a ring compressor. The piston tilts quite easily when fitting from the bottom, but if fitting from the top the skirt keeps the piston aligned.
Good point about the skirt keeping the piston straighter when inserting from above, you're full of good info, but...

I was asking why the piston cannot be REMOVED from the bottom.

Cheers.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:00 AM   #24
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I think you've got your correct reply one page earlier, since bottom og the cilynder is not square as the top part and the rings can open up in the cut-uots at the bottom while other part is still inside and therefore grrove itself on the exposed edges...not sure If I express it clear enough, sorry for my English))
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Old 07-23-2013, 08:18 AM   #25
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I think you've got your correct reply one page earlier, since bottom og the cilynder is not square as the top part and the rings can open up in the cut-uots at the bottom while other part is still inside and therefore grrove itself on the exposed edges...not sure If I express it clear enough, sorry for my English))
Don't worry about your English, it's fine.

I did take note of what was said in post #10, but I am interested to hear if anyone can provide explanations.

I understand what you are saying above, and agree that it is a possibility.
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Old 07-24-2013, 07:37 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanuts View Post
I have the KTM sleeve tool for 95mm bores (525 motor) for fitting from the bottom, on other motors I always fit from the top using a ring compressor. The piston tilts quite easily when fitting from the bottom, but if fitting from the top the skirt keeps the piston aligned.
Please can you say why you use a ring compressor - do you think it's safer or quicker, or what? To fit a piston into a cylinder on a work bench is pretty easy and safe, so why would an experienced mechanic, such as yourself, bother using ring compressor. I can understand choosing to use them when fitting cylinders to a triple-, four- or six-cylinder, specially if the bottom end is in the frame - it can be quite a struggle.

Thanks.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:50 AM   #27
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Its possible to damage to the skirts?
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:10 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by RedRupert View Post
Please can you say why you use a ring compressor - do you think it's safer or quicker, or what? To fit a piston into a cylinder on a work bench is pretty easy and safe, so why would an experienced mechanic, such as yourself, bother using ring compressor. I can understand choosing to use them when fitting cylinders to a triple-, four- or six-cylinder, specially if the bottom end is in the frame - it can be quite a struggle.

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plus its way quicker and safer to use a well oiled, tight, flush to the cylinder top, compressor. Especially with 3 piece oil rings.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:09 PM   #29
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Is the KTM bore by any chance tapered on purpose? I know some race engines are bored with a slight taper (< .0001) at the bottom that helps the short skirted pistons stay in alignment and helps provide support for the piston on the transition from down to up stroke. I would also check carefully for a piston ring groove at the bottom of the ring stroke, some bores get a distinctive groove on one side that will hook the oil rings and really tear stuff up if you go down too far. (Extreme wear issue... )

My .0002 bucks worth..

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