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Old 07-23-2013, 11:53 AM   #211
Sporting Wood OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preppypyro View Post
So with my setup, Im getting a little surging just when I cruise on the highway, I dont notice anything when i accelerate, or I dont notice it when Im driving in town at in town speeds. Anyone have any advice?
Whats your setup?

Probably need to go up a clip...
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Old 07-23-2013, 01:00 PM   #212
adiablolex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keener View Post
I didn't sync the carbs. I had synced them just before the changes.

Re floats...I layed the carbs on their side and adjusted the floats so that the floats shut the fuel valve but not lowered on their own weight. It took me at least 20min on each carb to get it to 4mm.

If you are talking about the spring under the idle adjustment scew, I never took the scew off so it is as it was before.
I think the way you're describing it sounds backwards
You lay the carbs on the side so the float just touches the valve, the accurate measurement would be with the valve shut (up) and the float tang just resting on the valve without moving it down (open).

valve down=open
valve up=closed

did I get it right?
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:51 PM   #213
preppypyro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporting Wood View Post
Whats your setup?

Probably need to go up a clip...
My bike is a 2006 950SM, has fmf cans on it, sas delete, canisterctomy, and of course this intake. My elevation is about 1500 feet.

45 pilot, 65 IAJ, #3 needle clip, 3.5mm floats, 180 and 185 mains.
This was H2W's reccomendation for me. I threw him an email almost a month ago asking for advice about the surging but havent heard back from him yet, so thought id ask her as well.
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Old 07-23-2013, 07:58 PM   #214
speedmonkey7
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Hey wood, what's the best decently priced tool to set float heights? I have the KTM one for 3mm but that is going to be pointless after I finally suck it up and get your intake.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk 2
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Old 07-23-2013, 08:12 PM   #215
preppypyro
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I dont know how others are adjusting their's, but I used a set of calipers, and took my time and I think it worked pretty well.
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Old 07-24-2013, 04:39 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adiablolex View Post
I think the way you're describing it sounds backwards
You lay the carbs on the side so the float just touches the valve, the accurate measurement would be with the valve shut (up) and the float tang just resting on the valve without moving it down (open).

valve down=open
valve up=closed

did I get it right?
Thx man, I think I will live with it until I'm back in Toronto. Just got to Nova Scotia and its just too nice out there to mess with the bike. Overal I am happy with the setup and getting around 37mpg if I don't ride too fast.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:17 AM   #217
Sporting Wood OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmonkey7 View Post
Hey wood, what's the best decently priced tool to set float heights? I have the KTM one for 3mm but that is going to be pointless after I finally suck it up and get your intake.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using Tapatalk 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by preppypyro View Post
I dont know how others are adjusting their's, but I used a set of calipers, and took my time and I think it worked pretty well.
I drilled the KTM tool and added some slotted pieces of steel under where it rides on the filter flange...but usually I just grab a set of calipers like preppypyro says and lock them to the desired height. Use the end of the handle, not the caliper end, to set the height. Works fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keener View Post
Thx man, I think I will live with it until I'm back in Toronto. Just got to Nova Scotia and its just too nice out there to mess with the bike. Overal I am happy with the setup and getting around 37mpg if I don't ride too fast.
Fwiw, it sounds to me like you adjusted them the right way. Down = closed. I do it the same way on their side. They can be a major pia to get right though. Might want to double check when you get back.
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:21 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preppypyro View Post
My bike is a 2006 950SM, has fmf cans on it, sas delete, canisterctomy, and of course this intake. My elevation is about 1500 feet.

45 pilot, 65 IAJ, #3 needle clip, 3.5mm floats, 180 and 185 mains.
This was H2W's reccomendation for me. I threw him an email almost a month ago asking for advice about the surging but havent heard back from him yet, so thought id ask her as well.

I don't support swapping idle air jets. I've done very extensive r&d in this years ago with an onboard wideband o2 and lots of dyno time... literally a hundred different jetting combinations taught me that increasing idle air is the absolute wrong thing to do with the free flowing filters.
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:37 AM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporting Wood View Post
I don't support swapping idle air jets. I've done very extensive r&d in this years ago with an onboard wideband o2 and lots of dyno time... literally a hundred different jetting combinations taught me that increasing idle air is the absolute wrong thing to do with the free flowing filters.
Ok, so in your opinion, do you think I should swap the IAJ back, leave everything else set the same, or...?

What does it do that its the worst thing a person can do as well? I know very little about this stuff, just trying to educate myself!
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:54 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporting Wood View Post
I don't support swapping idle air jets. I've done very extensive r&d in this years ago with an onboard wideband o2 and lots of dyno time... literally a hundred different jetting combinations taught me that increasing idle air is the absolute wrong thing to do with the free flowing filters.

I am interested in this as well, I went with 70's based on H2Wind recommendation and have everything running sweet now albeit the FP needles are on slot 5. I had to go to 5 to get rid of a 1/4 throttle surge when on slot 4

No surge anymore, no idle problems, no wide open throttle problems.

Appreciate your expertise and responses on IAJ topic.

2006 950 SM - FMF cans, de-smogged, 186F / 170R Pilot Jet #45 FP TI Needles 5th position IMS 2.5 turns IAJ 70 Float Height 3.5MM

Thumper996 screwed with this post 07-25-2013 at 12:02 PM
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:13 PM   #221
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Finally worked out my kinks as well.

Bike now pulls very consistent thru power band. I still need to tune a little for a little more stomp. Need to recheck my float level (yes - PITA) and try leaning my IMS.

Current situation:
2005 KTM 950 ADV 500-1000 ft elevation
Currently 80-90 degree temps and, of course, humid
Stock ignition
  • Performed OC Wisdom SAS/cannisterectomy removal
  • Installed D&D pipes
  • 178fr/180rr mains, needle 3rd clip (small washer on bottom, large on top), 3mm float height, 42 mains and 2.25 turns on the mix screws.
  • Sportingwood's intake and ITG foam filter; no airbox
  • Flappendectomy
  • Installed Alternate Cycle vacuum fuel pump - using front left manifold outlet to run the vacuum pump. All others are plugged.
  • Coil/spark plug wires are seated all the way down
  • Fresh fuel and inline fuel filter
  • New NGK Iridium spark plugs
  • Used Flowmeter to check synch on carbs 10.5 hg
  • TPS output is about .58 volts
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:25 AM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preppypyro View Post
Ok, so in your opinion, do you think I should swap the IAJ back, leave everything else set the same, or...?

What does it do that its the worst thing a person can do as well? I know very little about this stuff, just trying to educate myself!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper996 View Post
I am interested in this as well, I went with 70's based on H2Wind recommendation and have everything running sweet now albeit the FP needles are on slot 5. I had to go to 5 to get rid of a 1/4 throttle surge when on slot 4

No surge anymore, no idle problems, no wide open throttle problems.

Appreciate your expertise and responses on IAJ topic.

2006 950 SM - FMF cans, de-smogged, 186F / 170R Pilot Jet #45 FP TI Needles 5th position IMS 2.5 turns IAJ 70 Float Height 3.5MM
Idle air performs several functions within the carb in addition to supplying idle air to the pilot jet. It's size also determines vacuum pressure inside the fuel bowl. Larger air jets = closer to atmospheric pressure. Smaller = more vacuum. Bumping up to larger not only supplies the idle circuit with more air, which is a good thing, but it does so with the side effect of lowering the pressure within the carburetor, a bad thing. This results in slower response for the needle and sometimes less suction to draw fuel through the main jet, all things being equal. With a restrictive filter, increased vacuum somewhat compensates for this though imho, at the expense of proper atomization, efficiency and fuel mileage...

Using these free flowing setups puts a premium on the need for vacuum. Increasing idle air has a dampening effect on carb operation and seems to drastically move the low end operational parameters in the absence of a restrictive airbox or Uni prefilter. We see a lot more midrange lean issues and tall needle positions to compensate as a result. Not to say more IAJ is totally wrong... There is a certain black magic to getting the balance of air volume to vacuum to fuel correct. A lot of it overlaps and in certain circumstances can be made to work, in the right setup. My experiments showed me though, that it makes far too wide a difference, totally resetting the baseline to which all the rest of the carb is adjusted and shortening the range of idle circuit operation. For my purposes, slight IAJ swap like going from 50 to 52 or 55 is way plenty, more than enough and even then not at all necessary.

Conversely, lowering the float increases air volume making more air available to get sucked up through either circuit without much change in vacuum or complete baseline changes. In other words, this results in leaner low end operation without as much bleed over effect to the main circuit and the speed and rpm at which the needle goes up.
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Old 07-27-2013, 10:32 AM   #223
adiablolex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporting Wood View Post

Fwiw, it sounds to me like you adjusted them the right way. Down = closed. I do it the same way on their side. They can be a major pia to get right though. Might want to double check when you get back.
more details here, I stand corrected with the valve position, damn dyslexia

Setting should be with the float just touching the valve.

http://www.ktm950.info/how/Orange%20...ng_height.html

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Old 07-29-2013, 07:12 AM   #224
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last week I tore into my SE. I had to put new points on the fuel pump and figured I'd add the filter and jet kit while I had the tank off. I had to wait for the jet kit, but here's where I have mine set for now. I may make some adjustments and go back in and just double check a few things but overall, it worked well over 300 miles of dual sport riding this weekend.

Bike 2007 KTM 950 Super Enduro, Akro dual exhaust, ITG filter w/ SW plate, uni breather (5/8" 124) filter on vent hose, open air carb vents, 700' above sea level (ATL).

main jets 170/172 (would have put in two of the same size, 172 but only one of each size included in Factory Pro jet kit)
air jet 45
factory pro needles, middle notch (3rd position)
fuel screws about 2 turns out?? (I didn't change them from previous settings, but not sure what it was, will see if I can get a setting for sure this week).

I did have to adjust the idle a bit higher, but not much and I think that was mainly because I was used to it not being on choke for more than a minute or so and I probably took it off too soon.

The only thing I noticed was it did seem a bit off on power after it was very warm. When I installed everything friday night and took a quick spin, it would easily loft the front tire in second gear with just power (I was rolling along in second at lower rpms and whacked the throttle open to see if I was getting any bogging before it took off. no bogging just sent the front sky high. Sweet!!). sunday after riding a lot and pretty warm out, it didn't seem to have the same snap. No bogging, just didn't have the same power to loft the front wheel. could have been the outside temps, but would the motor being much warmer affect the power that much? I did have some deeper water crossings, but never stalled it in the water. Will check the filter tonight and see if I can see any issues...
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:35 PM   #225
preppypyro
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For anyone that it might help in the future...

My surging problem was a simple solution. I had the carb vents configured wrong. I routed them behind the starter, kinda "down" in the engine, and voila, no more surging.

Next long trip I make might be this weekend, and I was hoping to figure out riding the bike normal what the fuel economy is now.

I always hear people say its hard to keep off the throttle when you do mods and I always thought it was bullshit. Well now that I have the cans installed, this intake, the h2w jet kit, I know exactly why people say that.
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