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Old 07-26-2013, 04:29 PM   #16
disston
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I don't know if I got this from some where else or I made it up myself. My theory is that you can't over enrich the bike for starting. Therefor I set them to full on when starting the first time of the day, later in the day if the bike has sat an hour or even more I might use half enrichner. But for first start even on warm days I use full enrichner.

I want my bike to start with authority. No crank, crank, crank. My bike starts Immediately. Every time.

If I have to turn it over more than once I have probably done something wrong, like not setting the enrichners on full or the bike needs some little attention.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:58 PM   #17
Bill Harris
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Yeah, the Enrichener gaskets do suck some times.

But you don't have it bad. Here is the Enrichener-less old 600cc /5 owners starting drill:

First shalt thou Depress the Holy Tickler Pin until fuel dribbles out the overflow tube in the bottom of the float bowl. Then, shalt thou Pump the throttle seven times. No more. No less. Seven shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be seven. Eight shalt thou not count, nor either count thou six, excepting that thou then proceed to seven. Ten is right out. Once the number seven, being the seventh number, be reached, then crack the throttle by one-in-eight and hit the starter button. And the engine will start, and the people will feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large chu--

(Skip a bit, Brother)

After 20-30 seconds, if the engine starts to bog, hit the tickler again...

--Bill
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Bill Harris screwed with this post 07-27-2013 at 01:39 AM
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:26 PM   #18
Mista Vern
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
Yeah, the Enrichener gaskets do such some times.

But you don't have it bad. Here is the Enrichener-less old 600cc /5 owners starting drill:

First shalt thou Depress the Holy Tickler Pin until fuel dribbles out the overflow tube in the bottom of the float bowl. Then, shalt thou Pump the throttle seven times. No more. No less. Seven shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be seven. Eight shalt thou not count, nor either count thou six, excepting that thou then proceed to seven. Ten is right out. Once the number seven, being the seventh number, be reached, then crack the throttle by one-in-eight and hit the starter button. And the engine will start, and the people will feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large chu--



--Bill




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Old 07-26-2013, 08:44 PM   #19
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Ensure the float bowl gaskets are in good condition. If not, air can enter the starting circuit diluting the expected rich starting mix. Click to enlarge.



I'm in the full choke crowd, no throttle until the engine catches. I start the bike whilst seated and ready to ride, minimal stationary warmup. Idle won't be independant until it's a bit warm. Upon starting half choke is almost immediate, then it's off within 2-3 kms.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:45 PM   #20
disston
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This happened last Summer and it wasn't an Airhead but I think inspiring. I was passing by a neighborhood, lots of stop signs, going down this hill and coming the other way was a loud obnoxious motorcycle of some sort. Older. Being ridden by a kid, youngster, but they are all younger than me. He killed it at the 4 way stop in front of me and was trying to push the monster off to the side to get out of traffic. I pulled over and offered out the window to help. He said,"It's nothing. Does this all the time when it's cold. Norton's are a Bitch when cold.". "Gotta hit the tickler a bunch of times." And he proceeded to punch down on the tickler 10 times or so. Jumping around. The bike now on the side stand. He jumps on the kick starter, a couple of times, and it roared to life. Some more adjustment. Put the helmet back on. And off he thundered.

Rat bike Norton. I sometimes think they have all the fun. But I think we get to do more miles and I can even get to get on the freeway on a good day.

Bill is right about the gaskets. They get sucked it or blown out or something. Blue Loctight on the screws helps.
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Old 07-26-2013, 09:11 PM   #21
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Amal carbs .. ticklers .. = fuel on your hands/gloves after tickling .. and on the bike under the carb .. got to luv the brits... The Spanish though used them too .. old Montesa I had.

==========
Full choke when cold. No throttle, may be a very little whisper as it catches.

If it is that difficult I too would be checking for air leaks ... throttle spindle?
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Old 07-27-2013, 12:01 PM   #22
190e
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There were some differences in the Bing CV enricher operation over the years. Early ones like my 79 flat tops originally had only one fuel hole in the disc which explains why it's all or nothing in operation. I don't know when they changed but later models have several fuel holes of varying size to provide a progressive action.

There was service bulletin S1300179 100R issued in Jan 79 for the R45/65's with flat top Bings. It describes modifying the disc by enlarging each of the 4 drilled recesses to 2.5mm and drilling a 0.6mm hole in the 4th position. The bulletin also states that spare parts are already modified and any carbs updated by the dealer will have a spot of red paint on the enricher housing.

Next time I have the carbs of I'm going to give this a try.


Ticklers if they could have left out the mess was a brilliantly simple automatic choke that provided enrichment that diminished as the fuel level fell. SU did it much better by lowering the needle jet to achieve the same result.

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Old 07-27-2013, 12:34 PM   #23
disston
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I don't think the part about "early" carbs having the one hole is a good way to say this. I have a 1975 R90/6, which is earlier, and it has 4 holes.

Some of the /5 carbs were the worst.

Serves me right for spouting off about my bike being such a great pleasure to start. I went out last night at Midnight for a soda and the bike wouldn't start right away...ugggh!
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:01 AM   #24
Beezer Josh OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Harris View Post
First shalt thou Depress the Holy Tickler Pin until fuel dribbles out the overflow tube in the bottom of the float bowl. Then, shalt thou Pump the throttle seven times. No more. No less. Seven shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be seven. Eight shalt thou not count, nor either count thou six, excepting that thou then proceed to seven. Ten is right out. Once the number seven, being the seventh number, be reached, then crack the throttle by one-in-eight and hit the starter button. And the engine will start, and the people will feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals and fruit bats and large chu--
Haha! Awesome Bill! I just checked on this thread and it made me laugh. I offered to help a friend move a deceased sister's house this weekend, so haven't had the opportunity to install the new spark plugs and ride.

As for sucking in the gasket, it's not. I changed it out, had the same problems, and pulled it apart to verify it was in the correct location-no sucked in gasket. Anyone tried anaerobic gasket maker in this application? I've used it on oil pumps-where you definitely don't want globs clogging the lubrication system-with great success.

On a different note, and one to which this thread has shifted, I love the extended ticklers on my old Amal carbs. My BSA starts up MUCH better in the cold (or any time for that matter) than the BMW and I don't get gasoline on my hands. The only downside is that the area just under the ticklers is gas stained...it comes off with a bit of carb cleaner though. However, I rebuilt that bike not for show, but to be ridden!
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Old 07-28-2013, 01:52 PM   #25
190e
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I don't think the part about "early" carbs having the one hole is a good way to say this. I have a 1975 R90/6, which is earlier, and it has 4 holes.
Good point I should have said some early carbs....

Perhaps it was only flat tops that were deficient in enricher holes.

So Bing knew how to engineer a progressive enricher in 75. I can't fathom why they went backwards in sophistication bewtween 75 and 79 and then needed a service bulletin to put it right.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:41 PM   #26
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I set the idle mixture after about a 50 mile ride. I figured that should be enough to warm up the bike.

I have not done a compression or leakdown test. That'll be next on my list of things to try. I'm also not sure how old the spark plug wires and caps are, and the coils are original. I've been told that 95% of carb issues are electrical anyway. I'll do some initial electrical tests later this morning and see what I get.
Set valves again, engine stone cold, use Go/No-go gauges. Pay particular attention to the exhaust valves.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:42 PM   #27
disston
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Originally Posted by 190e View Post
Good point I should have said some early carbs....

Perhaps it was only flat tops that were deficient in enricher holes.

So Bing knew how to engineer a progressive enricher in 75. I can't fathom why they went backwards in sophistication bewtween 75 and 79 and then needed a service bulletin to put it right.
Have you noticed yet? That a lot of what goes on with building and tuning and making these things go is what is called "Bench Racing"? Most of us build everything in our minds before we build it for real. Sometimes this produces problems and the process starts over again.

The Pros, Bings engineers, do the same thing. They make it work and modify it in their minds then build it for real. The only difference between them and us is that they get paid to do this.
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:10 PM   #28
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Dyna III?

Dunno if it's your issue; from the sounds of it I doubt it. But fwiw, on my /5 the PO had also installed one of the early Dyna models. I was having starting issues and getting a very weak spark and a double timing mark until I changed the timing plate. That fixed it for awhile until the plate quit working and stranded me, at which time I just went back to points. That fixed everything.

Another fyi, the Dyna manual actually called for bending the tabs on the advance to retard the spread of the weights. So you might check yours to see.
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:00 PM   #29
bmwrench
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Make sure the choke discs are on the correct side and that they are oriented correctly. Also, make sure that the choke jet in the bowl is clear.
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