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Old 08-08-2013, 12:24 PM   #76
Navin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymorr View Post
Well, one of the reasons for choosing the DRZ platform was because of available tanks. It looks like the 300 engine may sit about 1.5-2 inches taller. I'm more worried about the width of the head. But... I have learned of a local guy who can repair plastic gas tanks. I'm wondering if he can modify one. Gotta check into that.
Did you find an external pump yet?
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:53 PM   #77
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Did you find an external pump yet?
Funny you should ask. I was just reading about what KLRsys used here...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...=797568&page=8 (post 119)

Previously I was thinking this Husky/KTM pump http://ca-cycleworks.com/products/fuel-carbs/fp-hus but I haven't a solid plan yet. Do you have a suggestion?
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:33 PM   #78
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That needs to be submerged in fuel in case you didn't know. My Husaberg 570 went thru a few pumps from boiling hot fuel so it needs it for cooling, no question.

I tell you what, the one thing I liked about the Husqvarna 449/511 was the sub fuel tank with the pump in it. Clear color, gravity fed. I bet you could find a spot for that or similar under the throttle bodies.

I think I mentioned a ATV external pump was available from Suzuki or Kawi, maybe a joint venture build they had? I'll try to find that again.

Edit: Duh, I read the link, that must be the FP I was thinking of.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:10 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navin View Post
That needs to be submerged in fuel in case you didn't know. My Husaberg 570 went thru a few pumps from boiling hot fuel so it needs it for cooling, no question.

I tell you what, the one thing I liked about the Husqvarna 449/511 was the sub fuel tank with the pump in it. Clear color, gravity fed. I bet you could find a spot for that or similar under the throttle bodies.

I think I mentioned a ATV external pump was available from Suzuki or Kawi, maybe a joint venture build they had? I'll try to find that again.

Edit: Duh, I read the link, that must be the FP I was thinking of.
I think it's from an LT-R 450 wheeler(shown below). Going to ask KLRsys more about it.

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Old 08-08-2013, 05:33 PM   #80
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Maybe this?

http://www.cheapcycleparts.com/oem-p...n-l2/fuel-pump

$425!!! Ouch!
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:50 PM   #81
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I used the LT-R450 pump housing but not the pump itself. The Versys pump was a drop in replacement. The LT-R450 also has an external fuel pressure regulator which I also used. It is a 42-43psi regulator. You'll need to figure out the pressure requirements of the 300.
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:14 AM   #82
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It's virtually universal that EFI is regulated to 42~43 psi.

Sailah on his CBR build used an external tank to house his stock CBR fuel pump.

Another good option is the CA Cycleworks pump. It's an OEM-replacement pump for a number of dualsport bikes -- my KTM 690 has one. I propose it would be a good fit regarding gallons-per-hour. I expect the KTM may use more fuel per hour than the Lil' Ninja. It's a submersible, self-regulated pump, and it lives inside the fuel tank.

Since you have a plastic welding service available, you can have them modify the bottom of the DRz tank to replace the fuel valve with a pump access port -- it will need a fuel-tight wiring pass-through, and a hose pass through. The pump itself is pretty small -- maybe 1.25" in diameter. When you view the photos, to help figure the size, the electrical terminals are standard .25" spades.

Oh, and it's cheap!!!

http://ca-cycleworks.com/products/fuel-carbs/fp-hus
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Old 08-09-2013, 10:20 AM   #83
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This one can be made to work.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intank-Fuel-...2e734a&vxp=mtr
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Old 08-09-2013, 02:49 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadracer_Al View Post

Sailah on his CBR build used an external tank to house his stock CBR fuel pump.
I used the stock Ninja 650 pump in a custom subtank under the seat. I wanted to retain stock functionality where ever possible and I wanted to keep the fuel warning light.

But I would probably go with an inline pump. The in tank pumps are great and very reliable but require a specific mounting flange and often the fuel lines are specific. I had a hard time getting a fuel line made that fit the TBs and the pump so I just used FI hose and clamps. Not ideal but the PSI isn't crazy. It's worked great so far.

The inline pump would require much less to package and should be easier to adapt.
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:11 PM   #85
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This view has me thinking that the Ninja frame might be a better place to start. Leave the engine cradle and make the rest mimic the KLX.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:00 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymorr View Post
This view has me thinking that the Ninja frame might be a better place to start. Leave the engine cradle and make the rest mimic the KLX.
Place to start?...it looks close to done in this view. Can't wait to see the path forward.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:10 PM   #87
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Place to start?...it looks close to done in this view. Can't wait to see the path forward.
Haha, no. That pic was taken after about 1 hour of work. I figure I have about 243 to go :-) I think the pic may be misleading. I have the Ninja frame next to the slightly stripped KLX. I was trying to see how close the frame geometry is.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:53 PM   #88
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The 300 frame material is like warm butter IMO. Guys have dropped them while stopped and bent the frame tabs for the rear sets. Typical cheapo Kawi stuff, like the CRF250l that are dinking their frames at the peg mounts too. Low grade crap. That would be my only concern.

Then again, with plush, long suspension and a bit of sensible riding, it should be OK. Although, I can feel mine flexing at the swingarm when heeled over hard.

You are screwed!

Yank that 400 mill and get a bit of bacon grease on the 300 cases and see how close it is.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:55 PM   #89
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Tony, if you don't mind me thinking aloud here...

If you start with the Ninja frame, adapting the front end is easy. The back you'll need to get a handle pretty quick on sprocket alignment. I assume the frame is plenty wide enough for the KLX swingarm right? The Ninja engine doesn't have the swingarm bolted through which is a good thing. Means the engine countershaft and swingarm pivot are designed closely together to reduce chain slack. You'll need to design the linkage mounts at the bottom (easy) and the top shock mount (little more difficult but not bad).

Nice thing about using the ninja frame, the radiator fits, seat fits, all the relays and ECU, battery all fit. The biggie is retaining the stock airbox. These FI bikes are sensitive to those airboxes being tuned in just such a way. My FZ1 is terrible in certain conditions because the airbox is gone and replaced with pods. That's the main reason I kept the airbox stock on the ninja.

Downside to using the Ninja frame, it might be bigger than you want, tank isn't ideal shape, riding position might be more stretched out than KLX. Might look weird without plastic


If you use the KLX frame, motor is going to need to be made to fit. Good chance the airbox won't work so you are in uncharted territory there. Does the swingarm go through the motor on the KLX? If so that's going to be the first real thinker.
Appears it does from this DRZ pic



If you put a spacer in the swingarm and mount the engine forward a few inches to clear the swingarm, you'll get a lot of chain slack when it droops out. Can always run a tensioner.

Assuming the Ninja motor fits the KLX frame reasonably well, you'll want to check the sprocket alignment again soon. The ninja is bound to run a wider rear wheel so it is most likely going to have a CS sprocket further outboard than the KLX. But if you are welding in mounts for the motor, that's easy to shift the engine over a 1/2" and you'd never feel it. You won't have that same ability with the ninja frame.

Other benefits to the the KLX frame as I see them. Most dirt setup. Tons of ADV DRZ type parts to bolt on. Seat is more of a ADV setup than the ninja. Tanks and seating position are more upright.

While writing this I was thinking I'd go with the Ninja frame, but now I'm thinking KLX. Assuming the engine fits...

-Motor mounts
-airbox
-FI pump
-Ninja wiring harness
-Cooling system

I think you are into far less heavy fab work by starting with the KLX frame. Even if you have to redo a bunch of the lower cradle I still think you have less work starting with that. Bigger motors like the 650 it starts to be less likely they will fit in a KLX frame and you have to use the frame with the motor and a re stuck down that path.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:00 PM   #90
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Good news! Pods and a Area P tune work great on the 300! I'm running that set up, it is excellent!

Rear wheel is 4.25" wide, probably the same as the DRZ 400SM version. Check that but it must be within .25". My KTM SM wheel is 4.5".
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