ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Thumpers
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-14-2013, 07:33 PM   #17836
zoro
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Darwin, Australia
Oddometer: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigpen View Post
Keep the two two cables in there, they were put there for a reason!
Not being mean, and I do it also, but why do us as armchair mechanics always want to change what 30 or so engineers designed for a reason.....
There are a bunch of things we do to our XR's to make them work for a D/S vs. a racing machine.....
Have a good day
I understand what you are saying completely, however I have seen lots of things that "30 or so engineers" have designed and still could not get it right...

Guessing I'll just leave it in there although it does seem redundant due to the large return spring on the carb itself.
(1) Worst case scenario is If the spring breaks and jams the throttle open, well there's no chance i'm going to close it with the second push cable, I'd be better off shutting off the ignition and or pulling in the clutch.
(2) If the spring breaks and does not jam the throttle open I'm still going for the clutch and ignition before I try and close the throttle.
I can reach both without having to remove my hands from the bars so control is not an issue, it would be more the split second fright it would cause.

Only benefit I can see by having it is if the pull cable breaks I might be able to use the push cable as the spare and get me home or to safety somewhere.
This is the first bike I have owned with the two cables setup, both risks described above were both present during the riding off those bikes also.
I'd be more concerned riding a bike with the "fly by wire" technology with no mechanical interface with the throttle assembly. Electrical glitch within the step motor and you're in the same boat as not using a "push" cable..

Risk calculated, its no different to how I have been riding for the last 23 years to be honest.

Interested in hearing any other opinions on this also....

Please, take what I have said as constructive criticism, I'm not saying you or anyone else are wrong but all things considered, does the second cable really have a place on a motorbike?

P.S. I'm also a qualified motor mechanic....
zoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 08:29 PM   #17837
Cpt. Ron
Advrider #128
 
Cpt. Ron's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Sacramento, CA
Oddometer: 2,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
I understand what you are saying completely, however I have seen lots of things that "30 or so engineers" have designed and still could not get it right...

Guessing I'll just leave it in there although it does seem redundant due to the large return spring on the carb itself.
(1) Worst case scenario is If the spring breaks and jams the throttle open, well there's no chance i'm going to close it with the second push cable, I'd be better off shutting off the ignition and or pulling in the clutch.
(2) If the spring breaks and does not jam the throttle open I'm still going for the clutch and ignition before I try and close the throttle.
I can reach both without having to remove my hands from the bars so control is not an issue, it would be more the split second fright it would cause.

Only benefit I can see by having it is if the pull cable breaks I might be able to use the push cable as the spare and get me home or to safety somewhere.
This is the first bike I have owned with the two cables setup, both risks described above were both present during the riding off those bikes also.
I'd be more concerned riding a bike with the "fly by wire" technology with no mechanical interface with the throttle assembly. Electrical glitch within the step motor and you're in the same boat as not using a "push" cable..

Risk calculated, its no different to how I have been riding for the last 23 years to be honest.

Interested in hearing any other opinions on this also....

Please, take what I have said as constructive criticism, I'm not saying you or anyone else are wrong but all things considered, does the second cable really have a place on a motorbike?

P.S. I'm also a qualified motor mechanic....
In my situation, things happened very quickly. Split second decisions when things didn't go normally. It takes time for the brain to process the error and respond accordingly. You should really think about your ability to handle the situation when it catches you off-guard.
__________________
Cpt. Ron

"I don't know what you do, but I know what I do, and I don't do that." --Uncle Doug, R.I.P.
"Without the possibility of death, adventure is not possible"--Reinhold Messner
Cpt. Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 10:40 PM   #17838
jm-2008
Gnarly Adventurer
 
jm-2008's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: South Eastern Australia
Oddometer: 476
Two cable or not two cable - the eternal question!

[QUOTE=zoro;22104068]I understand what you are saying completely, however I have seen lots of things that "30 or so engineers" have designed and still could not get it right...

Guessing I'll just leave it in there although it does seem redundant due to the large return spring on the carb itself.
(1) Worst case scenario is If the spring breaks and jams the throttle open, well there's no chance i'm going to close it with the second push cable, I'd be better off shutting off the ignition and or pulling in the clutch.
(2) If the spring breaks and does not jam the throttle open I'm still going for the clutch and ignition before I try and close the throttle.
I can reach both without having to remove my hands from the bars so control is not an issue, it would be more the split second fright it would cause.

Only benefit I can see by having it is if the pull cable breaks I might be able to use the push cable as the spare and get me home or to safety somewhere.
This is the first bike I have owned with the two cables setup, both risks described above were both present during the riding off those bikes also.
I'd be more concerned riding a bike with the "fly by wire" technology with no mechanical interface with the throttle assembly. Electrical glitch within the step motor and you're in the same boat as not using a "push" cable..

Risk calculated, its no different to how I have been riding for the last 23 years to be honest.

Interested in hearing any other opinions on this also....

Please, take what I have said as constructive criticism, I'm not saying you or anyone else are wrong but all things considered, does the second cable really have a place on a motorbike?

Suggest likelyhood or probability for the spring breaking is lower than the cable breaking.
Either way its cheap insurance against an awkward situation, unless you like excitement and have an adrenalin dependancy
Had the pull cable break on a CB750 years ago miles from home and managed to rig the push cable to get home (that was awkward to say the least) but without it I was stranded so having it there paid off.
The XR's are not generally known to have sticking throttle issues more likely hangin throttle due to cable adjustment or worn linkages.
For mine I'll stick with the twin cable setup to avoid any chance of a Darwin Award
JM-2008
jm-2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2013, 10:55 PM   #17839
zoro
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Darwin, Australia
Oddometer: 286
[QUOTE=jm-2008;22105074]
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
I understand what you are saying completely, however I have seen lots of things that "30 or so engineers" have designed and still could not get it right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post

Guessing I'll just leave it in there although it does seem redundant due to the large return spring on the carb itself.
(1) Worst case scenario is If the spring breaks and jams the throttle open, well there's no chance i'm going to close it with the second push cable, I'd be better off shutting off the ignition and or pulling in the clutch.
(2) If the spring breaks and does not jam the throttle open I'm still going for the clutch and ignition before I try and close the throttle.
I can reach both without having to remove my hands from the bars so control is not an issue, it would be more the split second fright it would cause.

Only benefit I can see by having it is if the pull cable breaks I might be able to use the push cable as the spare and get me home or to safety somewhere.
This is the first bike I have owned with the two cables setup, both risks described above were both present during the riding off those bikes also.
I'd be more concerned riding a bike with the "fly by wire" technology with no mechanical interface with the throttle assembly. Electrical glitch within the step motor and you're in the same boat as not using a "push" cable..

Risk calculated, its no different to how I have been riding for the last 23 years to be honest.

Interested in hearing any other opinions on this also....

Please, take what I have said as constructive criticism, I'm not saying you or anyone else are wrong but all things considered, does the second cable really have a place on a motorbike?

Suggest likelyhood or probability for the spring breaking is lower than the cable breaking.
Either way its cheap insurance against an awkward situation, unless you like excitement and have an adrenalin dependancy
Had the pull cable break on a CB750 years ago miles from home and managed to rig the push cable to get home (that was awkward to say the least) but without it I was stranded so having it there paid off.
The XR's are not generally known to have sticking throttle issues more likely hangin throttle due to cable adjustment or worn linkages.
For mine I'll stick with the twin cable setup to avoid any chance of a Darwin Award
JM-2008
I think I will stick with the dual setup, though as mentioned above the cable is most likely to break as opposed to the spring. In which case the throttle returns to idle thus making the "push" cable a redundant feature.

Had the return spring been mounted within the throttle hand piece (twist tube) on the bars then this would of course necessitate the need for the "push" cable.

Only reason I will keep the second cable is for a spare in case the '"pull" cable does break one day and I can maybe use it to get me going again. Better to have something that "might" work as opposed to nothing at all.

As far as not using the "push" cable being unsafe, I cant really think of a reason why it would be "less safe" to not use it?

Just makes me wonder what its real purpose is, as mentioned previously, its been put on/ engineered for a reason...reason being?
zoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 03:08 AM   #17840
pontyboy
Adventurer
 
Joined: Feb 2010
Oddometer: 14
Zoro,i've had my xr for just over four years.in that time i've covered tens of thousands of miles in all sorts of conditions.since day one i've run one cable only,namely the pull.when i bought the bike both throttle cables were in poor condition,the return especially so.to try to get a smooth throttle (my other bike is a ktm exc with a beautiful throttle action) i decided to run with the pull only until my new cables arrived.when they did i fitted the pull only as by then i had covered a few hundred miles and liked the feel.the new pull cable made it even smoother so i sold the new return on and carry the old,slightly ropey pull as backup.














of course,like everyone else i ensure my airfilters are clean and are sealing well.
pontyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 09:02 AM   #17841
Cpt. Ron
Advrider #128
 
Cpt. Ron's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Sacramento, CA
Oddometer: 2,983
[QUOTE=zoro;22105125]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm-2008 View Post

As far as not using the "push" cable being unsafe, I cant really think of a reason why it would be "less safe" to not use it?

Just makes me wonder what its real purpose is, as mentioned previously, its been put on/ engineered for a reason...reason being?
If everything is in good working order you are correct, you don't need the push cable. Go back and read the story I linked above. Dodgy cables (but only at or near full throttle) got stuck. Bike and I crashed, broken wrist. If the bike had a push/pull cable system, that would not have happened. Another instance is a buddy of mine had a minor tip-over on his GS (like my old one, only a pull cable). The throttle housing got tweeked, causing the cables to have a lot of friction. He had a hard time riding out of there because the throttle would stick....but only sometimes.

Think of it like a seatbelt or helmet. Nobody ever PLANS to use them. But they're sure nice to have when you need them.
__________________
Cpt. Ron

"I don't know what you do, but I know what I do, and I don't do that." --Uncle Doug, R.I.P.
"Without the possibility of death, adventure is not possible"--Reinhold Messner
Cpt. Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 10:22 AM   #17842
pigpen
Gone Riding
 
pigpen's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 617
two vs one

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
I understand what you are saying completely, however I have seen lots of things that "30 or so engineers" have designed and still could not get it right...

Guessing I'll just leave it in there although it does seem redundant due to the large return spring on the carb itself.
(1) Worst case scenario is If the spring breaks and jams the throttle open, well there's no chance i'm going to close it with the second push cable, I'd be better off shutting off the ignition and or pulling in the clutch.
(2) If the spring breaks and does not jam the throttle open I'm still going for the clutch and ignition before I try and close the throttle.
I can reach both without having to remove my hands from the bars so control is not an issue, it would be more the split second fright it would cause.

Only benefit I can see by having it is if the pull cable breaks I might be able to use the push cable as the spare and get me home or to safety somewhere.
This is the first bike I have owned with the two cables setup, both risks described above were both present during the riding off those bikes also.
I'd be more concerned riding a bike with the "fly by wire" technology with no mechanical interface with the throttle assembly. Electrical glitch within the step motor and you're in the same boat as not using a "push" cable..

Risk calculated, its no different to how I have been riding for the last 23 years to be honest.

Interested in hearing any other opinions on this also....

Please, take what I have said as constructive criticism, I'm not saying you or anyone else are wrong but all things considered, does the second cable really have a place on a motorbike?

P.S. I'm also a qualified motor mechanic....
In the old two stroke days and now, one cable worked/works fine, big spring in the carb!
Now I like the extra cable like you said for a spare just in case!
On the technical end It might not matter going down the highway, enough time to react, but if you were in tight situation or technical area and it stuck open the penalty box could be huge!
Mine is and edelbrock, not sure if it needs the push pull or not, tank has not been off for awhile, and I can't remember if the spring is very strong or not, I seems to me I ran an extra exterior spring for return... or updated an external spring for return...
I'm a fairly good mechanic on a bike also but I sometimes leave well enough alone....
On the other hand I have anew clutch cable zipyted to the existing cable to change out in the field...
Fly by wire is not my cup of tea either, neither is fuel injection on a dual sport, now on a road bike or track bike I'd run it, just like to be able to take apart in the field and fix things, which I have done in the middle of Hells Canyon miles from any help, cell coverage, etc.....
Just my opinion, yours may differ, probably will, and that's what makes this so much fun!
__________________
PIGPEN
Ride more, write less, work when !!!

Having fun is not a sport! It's a full time job for some of us!
pigpen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 10:29 AM   #17843
pigpen
Gone Riding
 
pigpen's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 617
accelerator pump

Capt. Ron,
BTW Thanks for the pump! I have it squirreled away in the tank bag for use some time. I cured the last problem I had with it, but It is very comforting to have a back up for the Eddy!
You rock!
On a side note that wrist injury report "sucked"! That must have been before we met in Death Valley!
Keep riding!
__________________
PIGPEN
Ride more, write less, work when !!!

Having fun is not a sport! It's a full time job for some of us!
pigpen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 10:56 AM   #17844
WunderfulLusterful
Banned
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Oddometer: 24
Why are you so hell-bent on removing the push cable? I see no advantage in removing it. It is not in the way, it weighs nothing and is a great emergency backup for a stuck throttle. Makes absolutely NO sense to remove it.
WunderfulLusterful is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 11:41 AM   #17845
Foot dragger
singletracker
 
Foot dragger's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: chico,just below rag dump(nor-cal)
Oddometer: 12,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
I understand what you are saying completely, however I have seen lots of things that "30 or so engineers" have designed and still could not get it right...

Guessing I'll just leave it in there although it does seem redundant due to the large return spring on the carb itself.
(1) Worst case scenario is If the spring breaks and jams the throttle open, well there's no chance i'm going to close it with the second push cable, I'd be better off shutting off the ignition and or pulling in the clutch.
(2) If the spring breaks and does not jam the throttle open I'm still going for the clutch and ignition before I try and close the throttle.
I can reach both without having to remove my hands from the bars so control is not an issue, it would be more the split second fright it would cause.

Only benefit I can see by having it is if the pull cable breaks I might be able to use the push cable as the spare and get me home or to safety somewhere.
This is the first bike I have owned with the two cables setup, both risks described above were both present during the riding off those bikes also.
I'd be more concerned riding a bike with the "fly by wire" technology with no mechanical interface with the throttle assembly. Electrical glitch within the step motor and you're in the same boat as not using a "push" cable..

Risk calculated, its no different to how I have been riding for the last 23 years to be honest.

Interested in hearing any other opinions on this also....

Please, take what I have said as constructive criticism, I'm not saying you or anyone else are wrong but all things considered, does the second cable really have a place on a motorbike?

P.S. I'm also a qualified motor mechanic....
Many,Many racers of 4 stroke machinery remove the push cable,they call it a "Lawyer" cable.
Neduro himself does it during settup of a new bike.
Hes done a few races here and there.

The spring that returns the throttle is strong,springs dont break often if you think about it.

Its a small thing taking that cable off,slightly less weight and a little less friction on the throttle. Less stuff in the way on the handlebars.
__________________
Some bikes around at times
Foot dragger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 11:58 AM   #17846
pigpen
Gone Riding
 
pigpen's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Oddometer: 617
cables

Neduro himself does it during settup of a new bike.
Hes done a few races here and there.

Ned's always pinned though,

I can see the benefit....
__________________
PIGPEN
Ride more, write less, work when !!!

Having fun is not a sport! It's a full time job for some of us!
pigpen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 12:47 PM   #17847
PeteN95
Beastly Adventurer
 
PeteN95's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2009
Location: Muk, WA
Oddometer: 2,457
I don't know where you guys get this "push" cable crap, but those are both pull cables, one pulls it open and one pulls it closed if the spring breaks or it gets jammed. Zoro, I would leave it, it might help you avoid winning the award named for your home town!?
__________________
"If you ain't slidin', you ain't ridin'"

SVN/XRR/Christini
PeteN95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 01:31 PM   #17848
jm-2008
Gnarly Adventurer
 
jm-2008's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: South Eastern Australia
Oddometer: 476
Cables

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN95 View Post
I don't know where you guys get this "push" cable crap, but those are both pull cables, one pulls it open and one pulls it closed if the spring breaks or it gets jammed. Zoro, I would leave it, it might help you avoid winning the award named for your home town!?
Noted!
The pull cable to close is there for good reason
Some beautiful pics here of MM's MotoGP bike here http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...40592&page=267
They see the worth of two cables
Dont want to see any entries in a special Darwinian's Darwin Award
JM-2008
jm-2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 01:40 PM   #17849
Cpt. Ron
Advrider #128
 
Cpt. Ron's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2001
Location: Sacramento, CA
Oddometer: 2,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN95 View Post
I don't know where you guys get this "push" cable crap, but those are both pull cables, one pulls it open and one pulls it closed if the spring breaks or it gets jammed.
Convention, standard nomenclature? Probably because during 'normal' throttle operation the second cable doesn't do anything but get pushed around.....

"The linear movement of the inner cable is most often used to transmit a pulling force, although push/pull cables have gained popularity in recent years e.g. as gear shift cables." From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowden_cable

https://www.cccables.com/

http://www.push-pull.com/

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...p?Product=3460

http://www.controlsandcables.com/buy...h-pull-cables/
__________________
Cpt. Ron

"I don't know what you do, but I know what I do, and I don't do that." --Uncle Doug, R.I.P.
"Without the possibility of death, adventure is not possible"--Reinhold Messner
Cpt. Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 06:18 PM   #17850
zoro
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Darwin, Australia
Oddometer: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by WunderfulLusterful View Post
Why are you so hell-bent on removing the push cable? I see no advantage in removing it. It is not in the way, it weighs nothing and is a great emergency backup for a stuck throttle. Makes absolutely NO sense to remove it.
I wouldn't say I'm "Hell Bent" on removing it, my biggest issue is the extra drag it creates and the logic of its placement.
My throttle has never "snapped" shut since I've owned this bike, it always closes steadilly (with bike off).
I have been dealing with a "hanging idle" as have most others, previously.

I have since removed the carb, replaced the 160 main and 65S pilot with a 175 main/ 68S pilot, placed B53E needle onto middle clip position and re-assembled. I have yet to start/ ride the bike.
Upon assembly I tweaked the adjustment of the cables and the throttle returned significantly better than before the tear down.

I also had even better results with the throttle return with only the single cable connected, hence my questions as to why it is necessary for it to even exist?

Pro's- can be used as a spare cable, can be used to close the throttle manually if "fail safe close" mechanism becomes non existant.

Con's- Creates extra drag on system actuation, something else to replace/ buy.

In summary, I will keep the cable on there, its not causing me any issue at present and its supposed to be there plus I can use it as a spare if needed.
The back and forth discussion and input from you guys certainly helped me make a decision for which I was unsure initially. I appreciate the comments, opinions and banter....all part of what makes this site the special resource that it is.
Glad it didn't turn into a sh!t fight, thanks guys.
zoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 06:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014