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Old 08-15-2013, 10:56 AM   #17836
WunderfulLusterful
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Why are you so hell-bent on removing the push cable? I see no advantage in removing it. It is not in the way, it weighs nothing and is a great emergency backup for a stuck throttle. Makes absolutely NO sense to remove it.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:41 AM   #17837
Foot dragger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post
I understand what you are saying completely, however I have seen lots of things that "30 or so engineers" have designed and still could not get it right...

Guessing I'll just leave it in there although it does seem redundant due to the large return spring on the carb itself.
(1) Worst case scenario is If the spring breaks and jams the throttle open, well there's no chance i'm going to close it with the second push cable, I'd be better off shutting off the ignition and or pulling in the clutch.
(2) If the spring breaks and does not jam the throttle open I'm still going for the clutch and ignition before I try and close the throttle.
I can reach both without having to remove my hands from the bars so control is not an issue, it would be more the split second fright it would cause.

Only benefit I can see by having it is if the pull cable breaks I might be able to use the push cable as the spare and get me home or to safety somewhere.
This is the first bike I have owned with the two cables setup, both risks described above were both present during the riding off those bikes also.
I'd be more concerned riding a bike with the "fly by wire" technology with no mechanical interface with the throttle assembly. Electrical glitch within the step motor and you're in the same boat as not using a "push" cable..

Risk calculated, its no different to how I have been riding for the last 23 years to be honest.

Interested in hearing any other opinions on this also....

Please, take what I have said as constructive criticism, I'm not saying you or anyone else are wrong but all things considered, does the second cable really have a place on a motorbike?

P.S. I'm also a qualified motor mechanic....
Many,Many racers of 4 stroke machinery remove the push cable,they call it a "Lawyer" cable.
Neduro himself does it during settup of a new bike.
Hes done a few races here and there.

The spring that returns the throttle is strong,springs dont break often if you think about it.

Its a small thing taking that cable off,slightly less weight and a little less friction on the throttle. Less stuff in the way on the handlebars.
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:58 AM   #17838
pigpen
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cables

Neduro himself does it during settup of a new bike.
Hes done a few races here and there.

Ned's always pinned though,

I can see the benefit....
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Old 08-15-2013, 12:47 PM   #17839
PeteN95
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I don't know where you guys get this "push" cable crap, but those are both pull cables, one pulls it open and one pulls it closed if the spring breaks or it gets jammed. Zoro, I would leave it, it might help you avoid winning the award named for your home town!?
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:31 PM   #17840
jm-2008
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Cables

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN95 View Post
I don't know where you guys get this "push" cable crap, but those are both pull cables, one pulls it open and one pulls it closed if the spring breaks or it gets jammed. Zoro, I would leave it, it might help you avoid winning the award named for your home town!?
Noted!
The pull cable to close is there for good reason
Some beautiful pics here of MM's MotoGP bike here http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...40592&page=267
They see the worth of two cables
Dont want to see any entries in a special Darwinian's Darwin Award
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Old 08-15-2013, 01:40 PM   #17841
Cpt. Ron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN95 View Post
I don't know where you guys get this "push" cable crap, but those are both pull cables, one pulls it open and one pulls it closed if the spring breaks or it gets jammed.
Convention, standard nomenclature? Probably because during 'normal' throttle operation the second cable doesn't do anything but get pushed around.....

"The linear movement of the inner cable is most often used to transmit a pulling force, although push/pull cables have gained popularity in recent years e.g. as gear shift cables." From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowden_cable

https://www.cccables.com/

http://www.push-pull.com/

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...p?Product=3460

http://www.controlsandcables.com/buy...h-pull-cables/
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:18 PM   #17842
zoro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WunderfulLusterful View Post
Why are you so hell-bent on removing the push cable? I see no advantage in removing it. It is not in the way, it weighs nothing and is a great emergency backup for a stuck throttle. Makes absolutely NO sense to remove it.
I wouldn't say I'm "Hell Bent" on removing it, my biggest issue is the extra drag it creates and the logic of its placement.
My throttle has never "snapped" shut since I've owned this bike, it always closes steadilly (with bike off).
I have been dealing with a "hanging idle" as have most others, previously.

I have since removed the carb, replaced the 160 main and 65S pilot with a 175 main/ 68S pilot, placed B53E needle onto middle clip position and re-assembled. I have yet to start/ ride the bike.
Upon assembly I tweaked the adjustment of the cables and the throttle returned significantly better than before the tear down.

I also had even better results with the throttle return with only the single cable connected, hence my questions as to why it is necessary for it to even exist?

Pro's- can be used as a spare cable, can be used to close the throttle manually if "fail safe close" mechanism becomes non existant.

Con's- Creates extra drag on system actuation, something else to replace/ buy.

In summary, I will keep the cable on there, its not causing me any issue at present and its supposed to be there plus I can use it as a spare if needed.
The back and forth discussion and input from you guys certainly helped me make a decision for which I was unsure initially. I appreciate the comments, opinions and banter....all part of what makes this site the special resource that it is.
Glad it didn't turn into a sh!t fight, thanks guys.
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:32 PM   #17843
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I removed the push cable about 3 or 4 years ago and it's been great *knock on wood*

I too had a hanging idle issue and it didn't help a ton (maybe a little, but I think it was a kinked pull cable mostly). It's snappy as heck though. I kept it on my 600 though because it has no issues.
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:39 PM   #17844
zoro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamfslap View Post
I removed the push cable about 3 or 4 years ago and it's been great *knock on wood*

I too had a hanging idle issue and it didn't help a ton (maybe a little, but I think it was a kinked pull cable mostly). It's snappy as heck though. I kept it on my 600 though because it has no issues.
I'm thinking my pull cable might also have issues, would anyone know where to get extended cables for this bike?
I have 1" risers on the bars.
Looking at replacing both cables.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:44 PM   #17845
WunderfulLusterful
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If your throttle is hanging up, you need to fix the issue, not just remove things until it works! Lube the cables and make sure the throttle tube is not sticking on the bars or inside the housing. Remove the return cable and see if that helps relieve the issue. Good place to start trouble shooting but I would not remove it all together, not make if "a racer you know removes his so I am going to do the same" That is idiot logic. I know it was not you that said it, I am just bringing it back up. Good luck with the throttle issue!


EDIT!!!!

Sorry, I didnt see they part where you said it worked better with one cable. How does the return cable feel when you run it back and forth by hand? It should be smooth as butter with no hard spots.

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Old 08-15-2013, 08:27 PM   #17846
zoro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WunderfulLusterful View Post
If your throttle is hanging up, you need to fix the issue, not just remove things until it works! Lube the cables and make sure the throttle tube is not sticking on the bars or inside the housing. Remove the return cable and see if that helps relieve the issue. Good place to start trouble shooting but I would not remove it all together, not make if "a racer you know removes his so I am going to do the same" That is idiot logic. I know it was not you that said it, I am just bringing it back up. Good luck with the throttle issue!


EDIT!!!!

Sorry, I didnt see they part where you said it worked better with one cable. How does the return cable feel when you run it back and forth by hand? It should be smooth as butter with no hard spots.

I think they both need replacing, due to the feel of them.
I did lubricate both cables when the carb was removed, I have a cable lubricator however the only lubricant I had on hand at the time was Silicon Lube, they felt much better afterwards but I still feel they need replacing.
Just looking at the external tube of the cable, it looks as though its "had its day"..
They are both 8 years old and still in one piece, once replaced they will both make adequate spares.

Any idea as to where to get extended cables to suit XR650R?

I have not had a good search for them yet, best I can find are standard length cables..
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Old 08-15-2013, 11:37 PM   #17847
bigtrailie
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Extended cables

Motion Pro. They will set you up. It may take a couple of weeks, but these guys were very good to work with. I added Rox risers on top of 1" block spacers. They made me some +3" custom cables. Plenty of length to spare...just in case I decide to add some ape hangers some day.
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Old 08-16-2013, 09:54 AM   #17848
PeteN95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt. Ron View Post
Convention, standard nomenclature? Probably because during 'normal' throttle operation the second cable doesn't do anything but get pushed around.....
No, it gets pulled by the carb linkage as the throttle opens and it gets pulled back by the grip as it closes. There are push/pull cables, like the Bowden cable shifters, but these are pure pull. Other wise you would need two of them!
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Old 08-16-2013, 10:14 AM   #17849
Cpt. Ron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteN95 View Post
No, it gets pulled by the carb linkage as the throttle opens and it gets pulled back by the grip as it closes. There are push/pull cables, like the Bowden cable shifters, but these are pure pull. Other wise you would need two of them!
My cables are adjusted so that there is a little slack in the cables. That helps prevent binding and herky-jerky throttle response (especially on my 950). Twisting the throttle open reduces the slack to zero in the 'pull' cable, increasing it on the 'push' cable. Therefore the throttle tube is pushing the 'push' cable before the carburetor linkage is pulling it. During throttle closure, the spring on the carburetor still keeps the tension on the 'pull' cable, so there is still excess slack in the 'push' cable, thereby the carburetor linkage pushes the cable back to the throttle tube. If something hangs up on the 'pull' cable or carburetor, that's when the 'push' cable becomes a pull cable when closing the throttle.

So mine ARE push/pull. But I'm not the only one calling them this.

YMMV.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:55 PM   #17850
tijuana
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Wristpins...

Anyone know if a Weisco wristpin fits on a Pro X rod? I know Weisco and Pro X are sister companies... If not I'll just buy a Pro X piston kit. Where is the best price for a Pro X piston kit?

thanks

Was just told inner and outter diameter of wristpin and rod should be same regrdless od brand and match OEM specs, is that true?
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