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Old 08-12-2013, 10:58 AM   #616
Motomantra
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Hey, Stainless

I was thinking about your vibration issue with the 2 stroke. I have tried, with some success, to tailor fit the bolt/hole relationship. Having the bolt fit perfectly snug in the hole has helped stop the bolt from loosening.
If you have the right sized reamer can you find a bolt slightly larger, then fit it with the reamer. Anyway, it worked on my old Triumph (not Henkley). The particular frequency of the vibration will have its own type of problem. That is to say; what works at one frequency may not work for another.
Good luck.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:17 PM   #617
leonphelps
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Which Loctite for my rifle

@dirty_sanchez....

I am building an AR15 rifle and I'd like a recomendation for which loctite to use on the Gas Block screws. Most people say to use RockSet because it is good to 500 degrees. The forms say (I know, I know) that I want the equivalent of Loctite Blue but with temperature resistance to 500 degrees. The barrel gets pretty hot with sustained fire.....

Any help would be great. Thanks....
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:28 PM   #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez View Post
577, 567PST, 565, or 545 all would be just fine to use on this application.

We're dealing with small parts, so apply the product one thread back from the tip end of the threads on the schraeder valve, 360 degrees, smear it into the threads so that the thread trough if full and you see the crown of the threads on the schraeder valve so we don't run the risk of getting thread sealant into the shock internals.

Let it sit overnight and you'll be Ace!

Dirty
no worky. i tried and it still leaked. i ended up redrilling and going the next size up (1/4npt)... fixed now. had to spend $20 for the tap and new shrader. oh well....
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Old 08-22-2013, 05:30 PM   #619
dirty_sanchez
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no worky. i tried and it still leaked. i ended up redrilling and going the next size up (1/4npt)... fixed now. had to spend $20 for the tap and new shrader. oh well....
Some things are a dark science best left never to be fully understood.

Good to hear you have it sorted though.

Ride Safe.

Dirty
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:40 AM   #620
GaThumper
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There has been some discussion (again) over on the DR650 thread in Thumpers about the failure of countershaft seals and two Loctite products have been mentioned to improve retention of the replacement seal. Note: Suzuki has designed a retainer and installed on 2013 models. Anyone who has had a cs seal failure would probably be installing the retainer along with the new seal.

The two products that have been mentioned are 603 and 648. Would either of these products be preferable, or maybe something else would be recommended?

Thank You!
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:58 AM   #621
dirty_sanchez
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GAThump-On the LC4 thread last night we were just talking about a weeping sight glass on the stator side of the engine-a very similar application.

Here's what I responded:

The sight glass on my '07 weeped just a bit but never enough for me to do anything about it.

The rocker arm shafts where they exited the valve cover also were a place dust collected. A bead of 598 Black on the outside fixed this once and for all though.

From what I understand that thing is fitted from the backside of the stator cover. You have to remove the stator cover, lay it on the work bench and push out the glass.

I seem to remember the manual says to use a retaining compound as an adhesive to mount the glass. I'd come closer to smearing a bead of 518 or an oil safe RTV in the inner diameter (mating surface) of the sight glass hole which has been cleaned and degreased and dry before the replacement sight glass is gently pressed into place. I suppose any of the blue or red threadlockers would work as well though, but I'd use 518, 515, or 510 because of it's lubricity as the glass is pressed into place.

If you choose 518 Gasket Eliminator you have the luxury of time-you're not rushed to reassemble (it'll never cure until you mate your parts), if you choose Instant Gasket, 598 Black, or 592 Blue the clock starts as soon as you smear on that bead. You need to press that glass into place within 3 to 5 minutes before it starts to skin over.

This is yet another reason I like using Gasket Eliminators-I don't like to be rushed during reassembly. A rushed repair lends itself to a bad repair.
----------------

Hope this helps.

Shoot me a link to where the DR650 thread picks up the countershaft seal discussion and I'll jump in if you like.

Dirty
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:02 AM   #622
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A little clarification: the seal itself isn't failing, oil pressure is pushing it out of its boss.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:40 AM   #623
dirty_sanchez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
A little clarification: the seal itself isn't failing, oil pressure is pushing it out of its boss.
Post up a few descriptive photos of the issue if you could.

The cool thing with threadlockers, gasket eliminators, retaining compounds, etc, is that when they're used properly, they'll bond that seal in place and help prevent the thing from blowing out of it's position.

Dirty
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:00 PM   #624
GaThumper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirty_sanchez View Post
GAThump-On the LC4 thread last night we were just talking about a weeping sight glass on the stator side of the engine-a very similar application.

Here's what I responded:

The sight glass on my '07 weeped just a bit but never enough for me to do anything about it.

The rocker arm shafts where they exited the valve cover also were a place dust collected. A bead of 598 Black on the outside fixed this once and for all though.

From what I understand that thing is fitted from the backside of the stator cover. You have to remove the stator cover, lay it on the work bench and push out the glass.

I seem to remember the manual says to use a retaining compound as an adhesive to mount the glass. I'd come closer to smearing a bead of 518 or an oil safe RTV in the inner diameter (mating surface) of the sight glass hole which has been cleaned and degreased and dry before the replacement sight glass is gently pressed into place. I suppose any of the blue or red threadlockers would work as well though, but I'd use 518, 515, or 510 because of it's lubricity as the glass is pressed into place.

If you choose 518 Gasket Eliminator you have the luxury of time-you're not rushed to reassemble (it'll never cure until you mate your parts), if you choose Instant Gasket, 598 Black, or 592 Blue the clock starts as soon as you smear on that bead. You need to press that glass into place within 3 to 5 minutes before it starts to skin over.

This is yet another reason I like using Gasket Eliminators-I don't like to be rushed during reassembly. A rushed repair lends itself to a bad repair.
----------------

Hope this helps.

Shoot me a link to where the DR650 thread picks up the countershaft seal discussion and I'll jump in if you like.

Dirty
Thanks to ER70S-2 for the clarity, most of mine was lost sometime in the 70s!

Yes, there is a problem with the countershaft seal blowing out on the DR650s. We are documenting the best practice for re-installing the replacement seal and improving the retention of the replacement seal. Some owners will probably install the new OEM seal retainer to prevent catastrophic oil loss in the middle of nowhere.

If you want to see the latest discussion you can start at the bottom of this page and the following 4-5 pages.

Considering Loctite 603 or 648 to help the seal stay in place.

http://advrider.com/forums/showthrea...5295&page=5482


Thanks to ER70S-2 and emmbeedee for the photo!

Here's where the seal lives. I'll see if I can find a pic with the seal installed, but you get the idea I'm sure.



From RamMan4x4 on drriders here are photos of the stock seal and the new retainer.



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GaThumper screwed with this post 10-02-2013 at 12:12 PM
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:47 PM   #625
ER70S-2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaThumper View Post
Thanks to ER70S-2 for the clarity, most of mine was lost sometime in the 70s!
Mine too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaThumper View Post
Here's where the seal lives. I'll see if I can find a pic with the seal installed, but you get the idea I'm sure.
My thanks to the fine gent whom took the photo.

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Old 10-03-2013, 06:38 AM   #626
dirty_sanchez
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Guys-after looking over the way the seals are pressed in and the issues with them blowing out here's my take on the dealeo-

With the seal removed, you MUST clean and degrease the ID of the seal mating surface on the case half with a residue-free cleaner degreaser. We're not talking white lab coat clean, but take pains to give it a very good effort-contact cleaner, paper towel, Q-Tip...clean it right, whip it good.

I first mentioned using a threadlocker, but at second thought these products are designed to have strength in threaded assy's., and have a much lower shear strength than a retaining compound would have.

Threadlockers start off in the 2XX series, retaining compounds start off in the 6XX series.

Oil seals often have some sort of injection molding lubricant aka release agent on them which transfers to the part. Clean and degrease the new seal as well. If you want to increase the mechanical adhesion and make the seal fit a bit stronger scuff up the outside mating surface of the seal with a piece of 180 or 220 grit sand paper just enough to knock the shine off.

If you trust your skills you could do the same thing to the ID of the seal mating surface in the case.

Doing either will only make things better.

Now for the product application:

With a cheapie metal handle small Harbor Freight paint brush apply a thinnish coating of 603, 648, 638, or 680 on the ID of the mounting location in the case and swipe a real thin coating on the OD of the seal (thin enough to make the mating surface shiney again) and then quickly drive the seal into place.

Let it sit overnight with no oil in the engine if possible. If you don't have time to let it sit overnight, you'll need to do a light spray of 7649 Primer N (an anaerobic activator that forces the retaining compound to cure more quickly) on the seal lip before you press it into place.

Feel free to cut and paste this response into the DR650 Thread so the guys can look over my suggestion.

Dirty
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:36 PM   #627
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For a stainless M6 bolt into stainless threaded insert in a nylon housing, what would be the best bet for a part that's not really under a lot of load?

I've seen some of the inserts twist/pull out the plastic housing during disassembly when the screws were (stupidly) put in with a red, high strength compound (the inserts themselves are melted into the plastic I believe). 243 would seem the obvious answer but I'm tempted to go with 222 just to avoid the chance of any more issues. For a bunch of M6 bolts holding a plastic housing together is 222 going to be strong enough to avoid any loosening due to vibration?
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:09 AM   #628
dirty_sanchez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BitShuffler View Post
For a stainless M6 bolt into stainless threaded insert in a nylon housing, what would be the best bet for a part that's not really under a lot of load?

I've seen some of the inserts twist/pull out the plastic housing during disassembly when the screws were (stupidly) put in with a red, high strength compound (the inserts themselves are melted into the plastic I believe). 243 would seem the obvious answer but I'm tempted to go with 222 just to avoid the chance of any more issues. For a bunch of M6 bolts holding a plastic housing together is 222 going to be strong enough to avoid any loosening due to vibration?
Sound thinking on addressing the problem.

That's the cool thing with having and being familiar with the various strength threadlockers. If the low strength purple 222 doesn't do the trick at 53 inch/lb breakloose and 30 inch/lb's prevailing loosening torque, we go to the next higher strength product which would be the 249 Quicktape at 74 breakloose and 47 prevailing loosening torque.

If that doesn't work, the blue 248 Quickstick at 110/43, then 243 Blue Medium Threadlocker (replaced the old 242 we're all used to using) at 230/40 in/lbs.

I've seen guys through the years get themselves into 9 kinds of trouble by putting a red permenant threadlocker on their bikes and in the workplace so many times it would make your head spin-so beware.

Dirty
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:14 AM   #629
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Brilliant! Thanks for the confidence boost and I'll keep those other options in mind if the 222 gives us any issues.
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Old 11-16-2013, 03:49 PM   #630
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Suzuki head stud leak

Dirty,

This is a coolant leak on my recently assembled RMX250



The cylinder is new and I think I unintentionally caused this by running a tap through the threads (which removed some metal) because the studs were very tight to thread in and I did not want to risk cracking the thread boss. I used some 3-Bond (Suzuki Bond) per the manual and tightened the studs to spec. Then I discovered the leak, swore lots, pulled the head and found the leaking studs were loose. The 3-Bond was opened about 18 months ago, but was re-sealed and stored in the fridge. It's age may have something to do with it. Anyway, would 577 be the stuff to use here (retain and seal up to 150C) or use something else? Also, I zinc plated the studs myself, in case that has some affect on the product's ability to retain.

Cheers,
David.
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