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Old 08-22-2013, 02:26 PM   #2071
biggziff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saget View Post
15 seconds??? WTF happened? Hoping you have better luck the second time.

Whoa....ya..wha' happen?
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:39 PM   #2072
merickk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saget View Post
15 seconds??? WTF happened? Hoping you have better luck the second time.
Looks like he zigged when he should of zagged.
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Old 08-22-2013, 03:22 PM   #2073
XR650L_Dave
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lemme guess, ailerons or elevator was reversed...
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Old 08-23-2013, 06:39 AM   #2074
merickk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR650L_Dave View Post
lemme guess, ailerons or elevator was reversed...
That should of been checked before maiden But I've had aileron servos that checked out find on the ground, but once under load had 2 different travel rates/distance which causes bad things to happen
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Old 08-23-2013, 10:23 AM   #2075
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For my latest project I wanted to design & build something different. Presenting the BFD, or Big F$#%ing Delta.



7' wingspan, 8-1/2 lbs with battery. 1300 sq. in., for a trainer-like wing loading of just 9.5 oz/sq-ft.



The fuselage is balsa & ply. Wings were cut from blue styrofoam insulation with spruce spars and a dowel leading edge. The wing panels plug in so I can get it in my car.



NTM Prop Drive 50-50 580 KV motor with 100 amp ESC. Notice I have the battery in the center of the fuselage, which proved to be a huge mistake. More on that later....



Under the nose is a removable hatch, giving me a place to mount a camera with an unobstructed view. That will come after a few more test flights.

And here's proof that it actually flies.




Now, about that battery location. I thought I had the CG location figured out before the first flight. I even built a 1/4 scale hand-launch glider to confirm it. I was wrong.

I was just taxiing around in the back yard getting a feel for things. I had no intention of flying it yet (which is why I don't have video, dangit). Suddenly the breeze caught it and lifted it off the ground. I immediately knew it was tail heavy, since it was about 10 feet up, pointed straight up and nearly stopped!

No room left to try a quick landing, all I could do was add throttle, shove the nose back down, and try to keep flying. It was BADLY pitch sensitive, going from straight up to straight down with the slightest elevator input. Even worse, turning would throw it into a spin. I managed to keep it pointed mostly skyward and gained some altitude, then walked across the road to the shooting range where I had more space.

After nearly spinning it in 4 or 5 times, I figured out the throttle was working against me. By throttling back to an idle I could keep it mostly under control. I was able to make some very gentle turns and get it back for a scary but uneventful landing. Not a scratch!!

The video above was the 2nd flight, with the battery all the way forward. The CG moved forward about 2 inches. Now it flies like a dream instead of a nightmare.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:18 PM   #2076
a65l
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Location: Where life is good and the air is sweet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saget View Post
15 seconds??? WTF happened? Hoping you have better luck the second time.

So I'll fill you all in on the whole sordid story. I bought the plane off a radio control website with the initials R.C.U, if you don't know it already. They have a buy/sell section, and I thought the plane was a good deal for the size plane and all. Sight unseen, I might add, other than the pictures. Well, when I got it, as usual for me, there were multiple things I didn't like. I was rushing a little bit, trying to get some flight time before a big event we were having. I could never get a straight answer out of the guy I bought it from if he had flown it or not. I'm guessing not, given the results of my first flight.
Anyhoo, I fixed what I didn't like, and modified a few things, but really wasn't overall happy with the plane. It's a big boy, 112" wingspan and the plans call for a flying weight of 26-28 lbs or thereabouts. This one was, I would guess conservatively, about 24 pounds. It was 24 pounds because the builder decided that it was better to not use the heavy and relatively pricey spruce and aircraft grade ply the plans called for and instead use Balsa wood and light ply. The next part is important. Of the same dimensions.

Let me repeat. Of the same dimensions.

Now, I'm not one to talk down other builders and hobbists. I don't know everything, and I'm certainly not qualified as a master aircraft builder. The guy I got this plane from had built qutie a few more planes than me, and as a matter of fact one of my club members had one. It was very nicely built, tight secuure joints, straight, fairly solid. But me, just me, if I'm going to substitute wood of, well, lesser strength in high stress areas, I'm going to increase it in dimension. I know balsa is strong wood, but if the designer calls for spruce of a certain dimension, I've gotta believe he knows what he's talking about.

Anyway. So I fix this and I fix that, and leave a couple things because, gosh darn it, he must know what he's doing, right? And let's not forget, I checked the CG as well, and wound up adding almost 4 pounds of lead to the nose to get it to hang level at the reccomended balance point. But that's OK too, I have another airplane that balances well behind it's CG point, and it flies fine. So maybee he did fly it like that, and likes it that way. Who knows. I don't, and I do like my warbirds to be right on or slightly nose heavy, especially on the first couple of flights.

Now I've got to talk about the wing attach method, because that's what failed. The Fokker D8 uses two sets of struts each side of the plane to hold the fuse to the wing. The fwd. struts are a tripod arrangement that bolts to a single point on the wing. The aft struts are single struts that bolt to the wing aft of the fwd struts. Convention would say that when bolting fairly important joints like that one would use either a block of hardwood, drilled and tapped, and a suitably long bolt, or a "T" nut with a bolt as well. The builder had, instead, installed a piece of 1/4" aircraft ply at the mount points, then drilled and tapped that to accept the bolt. I discovered this bit of engineering genius when I attached teh wing for the first time, and the bolts wouldn't tighten. Further, the foward struts (tripod arrangement, remember) consisted of three pieces of wire. The main wire was one piece from the bottom of the fuse to the bottom of the wing, where it fitted through a hole in a piece of angle aluminum. This was my failure point. Turns out that I should have put a wheel collar on that piece of wire before I tried to fly.
Now, I did see this as a potential problem, but with the plane on the ground I moved the wing around as much as it was possible to, and picked the plane uip by the wing, and did everythign I could to determine if a wheel collar was needed there. I never saw the wire move, so I figured I was good.
So, back to the maiden flight. AFter range check and multiple runs around on the ground, including a shutdown where I rechecked all the bolts and wires and wheel collars and control linkages, we were off. The takeoff was nice and straight, the engine seemed to make enough power, but just as it lifted off and passed out of ground effect I saw the wing "cock" to the left. The plane started to turn left, I applied corrective controls and it responded, at which time I started thinking about landing. I think I was starting to ease into a right turn when the wing seperated completly from the fuse. The fuse, of course, turned into a lawn dart. Good thing the ground at the field was soft, even though the prop broke I don't think the engine suffered any damage. The wing just fluttered down to the ground, unfortunately landing on a wingtip.

The moral is, and my lesson is, if you think it's wrong it probablly is. I have to wonder, though, if that plane had survived it's maiden flight how long it would have lasted. We tend to toss the WWI planes around a bit, scale stuff and all that, and I don't think the wing spar would have survived it's first loop. Not to mention the fwd. upper struts were simply screwed into balsa! stringers. Oh, and the horizontal stab was all 1/4" sticks. That thing spans almost 24".

This one I'm building is gonna come out heavier than the original, but that's fine. I'm pretty confident it's going to be under 30 lbs ready to fly, and at that weight it should do fine.

I've got a funny story about control reversal too, and it's the reason I always check the controls three times before takeoff....
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:14 PM   #2077
XpressCS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saget View Post
For my latest project I wanted to design & build something different. Presenting the BFD, or Big F$#%ing Delta.



7' wingspan, 8-1/2 lbs with battery. 1300 sq. in., for a trainer-like wing loading of just 9.5 oz/sq-ft.



The fuselage is balsa & ply. Wings were cut from blue styrofoam insulation with spruce spars and a dowel leading edge. The wing panels plug in so I can get it in my car.



NTM Prop Drive 50-50 580 KV motor with 100 amp ESC. Notice I have the battery in the center of the fuselage, which proved to be a huge mistake. More on that later....



Under the nose is a removable hatch, giving me a place to mount a camera with an unobstructed view. That will come after a few more test flights.

And here's proof that it actually flies.




Now, about that battery location. I thought I had the CG location figured out before the first flight. I even built a 1/4 scale hand-launch glider to confirm it. I was wrong.

I was just taxiing around in the back yard getting a feel for things. I had no intention of flying it yet (which is why I don't have video, dangit). Suddenly the breeze caught it and lifted it off the ground. I immediately knew it was tail heavy, since it was about 10 feet up, pointed straight up and nearly stopped!

No room left to try a quick landing, all I could do was add throttle, shove the nose back down, and try to keep flying. It was BADLY pitch sensitive, going from straight up to straight down with the slightest elevator input. Even worse, turning would throw it into a spin. I managed to keep it pointed mostly skyward and gained some altitude, then walked across the road to the shooting range where I had more space.

After nearly spinning it in 4 or 5 times, I figured out the throttle was working against me. By throttling back to an idle I could keep it mostly under control. I was able to make some very gentle turns and get it back for a scary but uneventful landing. Not a scratch!!

The video above was the 2nd flight, with the battery all the way forward. The CG moved forward about 2 inches. Now it flies like a dream instead of a nightmare.
Awesome! Want to build me one?
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Old 08-27-2013, 06:32 AM   #2078
Jimmy the Heater
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Now that is one huge RC plane! Damn! Very very nice work there.
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:27 AM   #2079
FPGT72
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Originally Posted by a65l View Post
So I'll fill you all in on the whole sordid story....
That sucks....I am heartbroken when I crash a foam plane. Last one was I flew my 1400mm P51b into a tree. I fly in the front yard and am just having trouble with depth lately....I think it is some new meds. I am still putting back together one of the electrifly WWI planes...those are nice little planes for what they are.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:21 AM   #2080
biggziff
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Took my youngest daughter and the Ural up to the RC field last night. Our club is one of the oldest on the east coast and is fortunate to own over 100 acres of land high up on a hill where we maintain 2 runways (grass) and several buildings. Last night was one of the last Pylon races of the season so we offered to help as cut judges. The last time I raced it was with my Scat Cat and things have changed a little bit since then. Most of the planes were V tails, but everything else was the same. Many of the guys who fly in the club are older...retired...60s. Some are fantastic pilots and others...well...not so much. In the second heat we watched "Bill" lose track of which plane was his and proceed to auger in wide open. It was not pretty. I didn't take any pics, but I am going to dust off the Scat Cat, renew my AMA and head up for the last 2 races to see if I can't shake things up a little. There are 2 guys, one much older than myself and one younger that generally run 1-2 in the series. I'll either auger in like Bill or end up in a mid-air with one of these guys...which would cause me to build a new Pylon racer and as we all know, it's all about the equipment. :)
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:22 PM   #2081
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Originally Posted by biggziff View Post
Our club is one of the oldest on the east coast
Where is the club and what is the name? Your location lists upstate NY. I, on occasion head up to the Albany area. If the club is near there, maybe I will bring a plane next time.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:23 PM   #2082
biggziff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Pilot View Post
Where is the club and what is the name? Your location lists upstate NY. I, on occasion head up to the Albany area. If the club is near there, maybe I will bring a plane next time.
We're about 2 hours from Albany

Aeroguidance Society

http://www.agsny.org/
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:03 PM   #2083
a65l
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FPGT72 View Post
That sucks....I am heartbroken when I crash a foam plane. Last one was I flew my 1400mm P51b into a tree. I fly in the front yard and am just having trouble with depth lately....I think it is some new meds. I am still putting back together one of the electrifly WWI planes...those are nice little planes for what they are.

Thanks for that... those little electrifly planes are nice, as are the micro RTF's or BNF's from parkzone I think it is. WE have a few of them around the club, they wound up getting flown in our tent at WOD this year during the rain. Decent power and performance that's for sure. Check out Maxford USA, they have some nice little WWI electrics also...


And ya know, I was a little bummed when it happened, but I was really a little concerned with how long the plane was gonna last anyway. I generally don't just fly once or twice a day, and all that balsa and a gas motor... anyway it's a moot point now, the current one is more along the lines of the plans, lots more hardwood and ply.

Speaking of which.. Oskar got to try out his new mount on for size for the first time... Dosen't look terribly enthusiastic does he?

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:46 PM   #2084
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Hey, those not far from Ithaca, IRCS is having a bipe fly-in sept. 28.

Any bipe or multi-wing, fuel or electric!

I hope to be there with my Fokker D-VII.
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Old 08-28-2013, 05:53 PM   #2085
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I have looked very hard at the maxford DH2...very cool little plane.



I have also always loved Swifts....they have one of the few I have ever seen.

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