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View Results: Countersteering and ATGATT - Correlation?
Yes teach countersteering, I am ATGATT 25 50.00%
No need to teach countersteering, I am ATGATT 5 10.00%
Yes teach countersteering, gear as I see fit 14 28.00%
No need to teach countersteering, gear as I see fit 6 12.00%
Voters: 50. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-30-2013, 07:17 AM   #16
hippiebrian
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Wear your gear, that's a given. I'm actually most of the gear all the time, as around town it's just the jacket, jeans, boots, full face and gloves with the pants added for anything that involves the freeway.

No need to teach countersteering, as if you can make a motorcycle change direction, you are already countersteering wether you know it or not, and there is no need to put more information into the head of someone who is learning how to ride than necessary.

I've been riding 40 years, and I was riding 25 or so years before I ever even heard of countersteering.
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Old 08-30-2013, 07:44 AM   #17
MotoTex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hippiebrian View Post
I've been riding 40 years, and I was riding 25 or so years before I ever even heard of countersteering.
Same for me. I must say that once the concept of countersteering sank in, my ability to employ it increased exponentially.

It was a kind of mystery before, but I got the bike around well enough.

After "getting it" I was able to weave within a lane width dragging pegs at highway speeds on a K75C, and loft the front wheel in the transition from side to side on a KLR. (those long empty straight roads in West Texas can get pretty boring, so I added curves when there wasn't traffic around.)

For me it seems important enough to pursue for those riders bent on becoming more proficient.

Not so much for those who are satisfied in herding their bikes, en mass, from bar to bar, in order to manifest their experience of "living the biker lifestyle."
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:14 PM   #18
hippiebrian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
Same for me. I must say that once the concept of countersteering sank in, my ability to employ it increased exponentially.

It was a kind of mystery before, but I got the bike around well enough.

After "getting it" I was able to weave within a lane width dragging pegs at highway speeds on a K75C, and loft the front wheel in the transition from side to side on a KLR. (those long empty straight roads in West Texas can get pretty boring, so I added curves when there wasn't traffic around.)

For me it seems important enough to pursue for those riders bent on becoming more proficient.

Not so much for those who are satisfied in herding their bikes, en mass, from bar to bar, in order to manifest their experience of "living the biker lifestyle."
I could do those things (weave white lines, etc.) on my old ratty hardtail sportster back inthe day (early 80's) and still did not know what countersteering was. I thought it would be cool to be able to do it at speed, so I PRACTICED and got it down. A new rider needs practice, not physics lessons.
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Old 08-30-2013, 01:53 PM   #19
MotoTex
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Originally Posted by hippiebrian View Post
I could do those things (weave white lines, etc.) on my old ratty hardtail sportster back inthe day (early 80's) and still did not know what countersteering was. I thought it would be cool to be able to do it at speed, so I PRACTICED and got it down. A new rider needs practice, not physics lessons.
Good for you. Practice makes perfect they say.

The 1000cc Sportster I bought new in 1984 couldn't manage this kind of play. There was too much fork flex to accommodate repeated, rapid direction changes. I would turn the bars quickly and have to wait for the front wheel to catch up. Most disconcerting. Plus you really couldn't lean very far before the pegs dragged anyway due to the low placement, so the comparison of what you were doing and what I described might be apples to oranges. The Sporty is the bike I traded after 10K miles for the K75C. I put 80K miles on the K bike and never looked back.

As for PRACTICE,

Different people learn differently. Everyone has a way that works best.

Some have a preference for visual learning, some get things easier when they hear or read it, still others learn best when physically doing, like you.

Everybody has their primary modality. It is easy to be convinced that everyone else learns the same way you do, because that is all you have as a reference. When teaching it is best to identify the student's preferred modality and use that information to get the idea across. The Rider Course uses all three modalities.

In an internet forum we can only do two, at best.
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