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Old 08-30-2013, 08:19 PM   #16
viverrid OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVhillbilly View Post
Any dirt riding courses in your area?
She already took & passed MSF Dirt Bike School. I thought it was kind of lame & tame. She already had her MC license and had ridden dirt roads on every ride (since we lived on one).

She likes riding as passenger but due to my medical situation I'm not going to be able to do that much longer. The hope was she'd get confident enough to keep riding on her own after I'm gone. She hasn't wanted to ride by herself, except that where we used to live she got used to doing the same 10 mile loop so would go out and do that by herself.
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Old 08-30-2013, 08:45 PM   #17
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I would try to find an advanced dirt school for her.
Better to let her learn on a track or trail than risk a fall on the road.

One of the first times my wife had to pull her bike from the pavement to the dirt she grabbed the front brake at walking speed.
Front wheel was turned and down she went. Bent shifter and nothing else hurt on her or the bike.

There are so many little things that we learn over years of riding (and falling) that we don't always remember to tell someone who is learning to ride. I know I am a horrible teacher.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by viverrid View Post
We've been over that before. She took and passed the riding course. The riding course is all at low speeds on a level paved parking lot. No dirt.
Discussing rider to rider is a good thing. Any of us can learn from the more experimented riders around.


But if you "stop on pavement" before a turn to circumvent the "danger" of taking a turn onto a dirt road, she will never learn. And one day, somewhere, you won't be there to make the "danger" disapear. That was my point.


Discuss about riding with her but don't ride for her.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:13 PM   #19
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A modern ABS most probably WOULD have kicked in and WOULD have catched her.

However, as you state she has a more pavement oriented tire than you, there is a chance she would have been too fast for the turn even without braking. And oh, in my experience it takes huge balls to rely on the ABS under these circumstances.
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Old 08-30-2013, 11:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by randyo View Post
I actually thought that, but didn't want to say it
Needed to be said.

I ride pairs with my wife. We have Burgmans, and comms, and stay on the pavement, but the same principle apples --- avoid surprises.

We chat back and forth all the time, discussing our route, and I've always relied on my turn signals to show I'm turning here.

I started using arm signals this summer to indicate I was about to swerve right in front of her and stop suddenly so I could take a picture. She keeps telling me how much she appreciates arm signals, so now it's become a habit. She has ABS and it works really well.

FWIW, we practice panic stops. Still. It's good to know what to expect if you hammer the brakes hard.

ABS is effective at keeping the brakes from locking up in a hard stop. The are effective only as long as the front wheel is straight. If the wheel starts to turn, the ABS will help break the (angled) front tire loose. If the wheel is turned away from the axis of motion, it must be rolling, or the bike is going down. No way around it.

If you ride often with your wife, you might look into headsets. Cardo and SENA are good brands, starting at $300 for the pair. They make riding a lot more fun, at least for us.

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Old 08-30-2013, 11:31 PM   #21
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ABS is a crutch, learn to ride the bike properly first. Then it's a nice back up.
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:56 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by WVhillbilly View Post
I would try to find an advanced dirt school for her.
Better to let her learn on a track or trail than risk a fall on the road.

There are so many little things that we learn over years of riding (and falling) that we don't always remember to tell someone who is learning to ride. I know I am a horrible teacher.


Don't underestimate the lack of basic understanding of how a bike reacts to different surfaces.

Don't underestimate how bad a teacher you are compared to a good professional teacher.

No way I'd be willing to teach a loved one how to ride. I leave that to the professionals with a clean conscience.
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:11 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Woland View Post


Don't underestimate the lack of basic understanding of how a bike reacts to different surfaces.
Riding a bike on dirt is totally different from riding on pavement, especially when you start leaving the ground. I had a dirt bike as a kid. My first instinct is still to get out of trouble on my Burgman with the throttle, not the brake. My wife has never ridden on dirt, and doesn't grasp that concept. She still wants to brake.

Quote:
Don't underestimate how bad a teacher you are compared to a good professional teacher.
I'm actually a good teacher, but it doesn't matter, good or bad, if I teach the wrong things. Better to learn from someone who really knows.

Quote:
No way I'd be willing to teach a loved one how to ride. I leave that to the professionals with a clean conscience.
LOL! Absolutely not. Too much drama!

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Old 08-31-2013, 02:27 AM   #24
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No way I'd be willing to teach a loved one how to ride. I leave that to the professionals with a clean conscience.
She already went to classes to "learn to ride". She learned to ride and we were out riding. At what point can she just "go for a ride", never since she'll always be learning and she can't ride with me while she's learning? Aren't we all always learning?

I'm not supposed to teach her how to ride, but I am supposed to get us headsets so I can tell her, "when we make this turn be sure to ease off on the brake before you get onto the dirt", isn't that telling her how to ride? Which is it? We'd already ridden 30 miles, should I have been talking her through every turn, when I'm not supposed to tell her what to do?

The one thing different about this turn was that it was the only time since I don't know when, that the transition from pavement to dirt involved a turn. We had been riding every weekend. All our rides involve both paved and dirt roads. All the other recent transitions involved riding straight past the end of the pavement. It was the first one like this in a while, maybe all year, and it got her.

This is in our local area, I'm pretty sure we've been around it before in either cars or bikes. We certainly have driven by it many times since the paved road is a to-and-from route that we've used many times. It's how we'd get from where we lived for 15 years, to and from Walmart if we went to Walmart. We don't actually go to Walmart itself but to the other stores in that vicinity. It's not like she is unfamiliar with the area, her son lives on a different dirt side road just a little ways down from this one.

She just rode poorly. She could have come to a complete stop on the pavement. I almost did to wait for her to catch up. But instead I braked, released, rode around the turn and then stopped to wait for her. She "short cutted" the process and went right for where I was while still braking, and she crashed.
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Old 08-31-2013, 02:35 AM   #25
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Learner rider should always go first if you cant as a leader rider recognise dangerous spots for them and have already slowed them down.
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:16 AM   #26
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Front wheel lost grip?

As I understand it, she went too hot into a corner that took you onto dirt. Anybody else ever go too hot on (or onto) dirt and lose the front wheel? Nobody?

The real question is, "Does she understand what happened?". If yes, then suggest to to her that this type of mistake was bound to happen, and that similar things have happened to every rider on dirt (except for the experts on ADV).
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Old 08-31-2013, 03:39 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Scott_F View Post
... If the wheel starts to turn, the ABS will help break the (angled) front tire loose. If the wheel is turned away from the axis of motion, it must be rolling, or the bike is going down. No way around it....

Why is the wheel locking up the fault of the antilock braking system and not the brakes themselves?
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Old 08-31-2013, 05:04 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by henshao View Post
Why is the wheel locking up the fault of the antilock braking system and not the brakes themselves?
Why is the wheel locking up the fault of the antilock braking system and the brakes and not the rider?
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Old 08-31-2013, 05:56 AM   #29
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You can have the best teacher in the world but how much of his knowledge is transferred to and retained by the student depends on that students ability to learn and apply information in practice. Additionally we all make mistakes. Some make fewer than others. What happened with your wife could have happened regardless of how well she was taught to ride and even if she were experienced. Less likely but still can happen. A micro slip/lack of concentration will do that and there's nothing you can do about it unfortunately. You can only do your best to keep your wife safe and your best is also human so you too can make a mistake. I've been riding bikes for 15 years, had many, many crashes in that time but never anything serious and through those years I've learned that the only way to be certain you won't mess up on a bike is not to ride one at all.
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Old 08-31-2013, 06:17 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixdoglover View Post
As I understand it, she went too hot into a corner that took you onto dirt. Anybody else ever go too hot on (or onto) dirt and lose the front wheel? Nobody?

The real question is, "Does she understand what happened?". If yes, then suggest to to her that this type of mistake was bound to happen, and that similar things have happened to every rider on dirt (except for the experts on ADV).
right, accidents happen, I hope she gets back on the bike a continues riding with you. Wish my wifey did.
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