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Old 09-10-2013, 01:20 PM   #106
Tallbastid
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Originally Posted by GoUglyEarly View Post
Unfortunately, man is so catastrophically stupid that even 2,500 years after the Greeks, he has not yet figured out that ticketing people for standing on footpegs designed for feet while letting executives gamble billions of dollars collected from taxes creates a basic cultural disrespect for the concept of law that cannot be fixed by writing more stupid laws.
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Old 09-11-2013, 12:15 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by mjfields_228 View Post
I will plan on bringing photo's of me standing on the bike with big arrows pointing at my immediate access to all of the controls with ease and to demonstrate to the judge that the GSA can be safely operated in the standing position.
...
I am open for any other suggestions. And I hate to even ask it, but due to the large amount of the fine is it reasonable at this time to look into a lawyer?
I see you're getting a lawyer. You'll need it. The game is played by their rules. Trying to convince the judge that the law is unreasonable and doesn't/shouldn't apply to you is a long shot at best.

You need to show that what you did was not, in fact, a violation of the law. A lawyer will know if you have a reasonable chance of doing that and the best way to try. I would like to see something like this defense attempted:

The law could be interpreted to not require sitting at all times, but that when you are seated you must do it as specified. For instance, (a) prevents you from sitting on the handlebars, and (b) prevents you from riding sidesaddle or backwards. Both of these are clearly bad ways to ride on public roads and it makes sense to pass a law that bans them, so that is obviously what the law intends to address. On the other hand, simply standing is a safe riding technique, which is printed in state riding manuals, and advocated by riding schools such as the MSF, so the law obviously is not intended to prevent the use of this safe riding technique. Therefore, ipso queso, etcetera, and all that too, what you did was not, in fact, a violation of the law, and you walk out a free man!

You'll need a very cunning weasel to convince the court of that. Good luck, and keep us updated.
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:36 AM   #108
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Check statutes which may allow entry of a deferred finding (of guilt) or deferred prosecution. For instance, Washington state RCW 46.63.070 allows such for traffic infractions, once every 7 years. Pay an administrative fee of $150, be a good boy for 1 year, case dismissed.
Also, nonappearance of the officer is not necessarily cause for dismissal if you did not request him and statutes allow court to rely on his written report. Check your law.
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Old 09-11-2013, 09:23 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by anselmo View Post
.
Also, nonappearance of the officer is not necessarily cause for dismissal if you did not request him and statutes allow court to rely on his written report. Check your law.
Translation: Hire an Attorney.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:37 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Tirespin View Post
I see you're getting a lawyer. You'll need it. The game is played by their rules. Trying to convince the judge that the law is unreasonable and doesn't/shouldn't apply to you is a long shot at best.

You need to show that what you did was not, in fact, a violation of the law. A lawyer will know if you have a reasonable chance of doing that and the best way to try. I would like to see something like this defense attempted:

The law could be interpreted to not require sitting at all times, but that when you are seated you must do it as specified. For instance, (a) prevents you from sitting on the handlebars, and (b) prevents you from riding sidesaddle or backwards. Both of these are clearly bad ways to ride on public roads and it makes sense to pass a law that bans them, so that is obviously what the law intends to address. On the other hand, simply standing is a safe riding technique, which is printed in state riding manuals, and advocated by riding schools such as the MSF, so the law obviously is not intended to prevent the use of this safe riding technique. Therefore, ipso queso, etcetera, and all that too, what you did was not, in fact, a violation of the law, and you walk out a free man!

You'll need a very cunning weasel to convince the court of that. Good luck, and keep us updated.

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Old 09-12-2013, 08:40 PM   #111
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I rode standing for a good portion of the way home from jury duty today, just to show my solidarity.
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Old 09-13-2013, 04:42 PM   #112
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I stand a lot while riding. Have been seen standing by many cops and have never been pulled over for it.
The reason may be that I sit as soon as I see the prowlers. If stopped I'll say I was stretching out a cramp.
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:12 AM   #113
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I emailed a friend (Tom Lowdermilk -- SideStand Up) that I figured would have a good idea about who locally I should talk to for legal advice.
Tom sent out an email to a list of his 'usual suspects' and the response has been excellent!!! My near term goal is to get a legal advice from a traffic ticket lawyer from the Gainesville Florida area early this upcoming week and go from there.

I was riding my Speed Triple on a short 3 day road trip these last few days and was totally gripped with fear the entire fooking time that if I stood up --even just once for 2 seconds--that I would be shot and killed from crimes against the King.

Also, during my travels I causally polled all LD riders I came across as to whether or not they stood up while riding to stretch or air out and they all said yes. And all were mortified that the State of Florida issues tickets for over $1000 for doing it.
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:16 PM   #114
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I'm not a politically active person and would have no idea who to contact, but this situation sounds to me like we need to contact some state representatives to have some laws changed or at least clarified that standing is NOT stunting. I am sure one of them has some influence over traffic laws. I just wouldn't know which one. I live in Florida and I stand when I ride too, but ever since reading this, I am extremely paranoid about it. If someone posts who we need to write a letter to I would be happy to submit one.
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:46 PM   #115
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another tactic is to have as many on here write or email the tourism board and tell them you will not be spending any money in their state on your motorcycle as you have done in the past, due to this law. I 5 write no effect. If 10K of us write, something will happen.

Probably get a ticket in the mail for not visiting Florida.

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:45 PM   #116
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I am not politically active/astute either And I am scared shitless to stand up now for any length of time or even go 1mph over the speed limit!!!

Tom Lowdermilk invited me to join in on the Sidestandup show Tuesday evening to share my situation there. The consensus shared by all participating on the show was clear; The law is horribly flawed. It is intended for stunting and not for LD riders talking a quick stretch. It turns out, they had former Florida State Representative Carlos Lopez-Cantera (author/support of the bill that became this statute) on their show a couple years back and he conceded (at that time) that the law lacked adequate definition to preclude issues like mine. Nevertheless, nothing has brought this issue forward to bring about the necessary changes. To outright get it revised would take someone with some real horse power in Florida politics and in Tallahassee.

One thing that would actually perhaps help start the overall foundation for a change would be if I am unsuccessful in getting the charge dismissed at the first hearing and I elect bring the issue to a trial, I could request that Lopez-Cantera be subpoenaed and get the facts entered into the record that he had previously conceded that the law was intended for stunting and not occasional standing. That would serve as excellent case law to act as a catalyst to amended the statute. Baby steps but, nevertheless, a defined starting point.

Again, I do not want this to have to go to that level of effort. However, if remains unchecked the statute as it stands is something that can really adversely effect riders doing safe and accepted practices.

First offense is $1154
Second offense is $2266 and 1 year suspended
Third offense is $5000 and 10 years suspended

As for an update on my case I am still waiting to speak to motorcycle traffic ticket specialty lawyer. Left him a message this afternoon so I hope to hear back tomorrow or Monday at the latest.

More to come.............
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:22 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by mjfields_228 View Post
One thing that would actually perhaps help start the overall foundation for a change would be if I am unsuccessful in getting the charge dismissed at the first hearing and I elect bring the issue to a trial, I could request that Lopez-Cantera be subpoenaed and get the facts entered into the record that he had previously conceded that the law was intended for stunting and not occasional standing. That would serve as excellent case law to act as a catalyst to amended the statute. Baby steps but, nevertheless, a defined starting point.

Again, I do not want this to have to go to that level of effort. However, if remains unchecked the statute as it stands is something that can really adversely effect riders doing safe and accepted practices.

First offense is $1154
Second offense is $2266 and 1 year suspended
Third offense is $5000 and 10 years suspended

As for an update on my case I am still waiting to speak to motorcycle traffic ticket specialty lawyer. Left him a message this afternoon so I hope to hear back tomorrow or Monday at the latest.

More to come.............
Yours would definitely be a really good test case to establish good case law. Of course, no one wants to be the test case, and I certainly don't blame you for not wanting to be the one.

As for who to write, all Florida motorcyclists reading this should find out who your State representatives are, and talk to them. I write mine a few times a year about various issues that are important to me.

For the OP...BEST OF LUCK.
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Old 10-29-2013, 04:57 PM   #118
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Bump for an update?
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:38 PM   #119
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Stunting laws here in Ontario, Canada also preclude standing while riding. Big fines and all that BS to collect cash to keep covering the escalating costs of policing....something wrong with having the police collecting victimless crime taxes so they can continue to grow their budgets. It's laws like this that give rise to mass rides of stunter punks. People eventually say fuck it and fuck the stupid laws simply because it will cost you a lot of money and time to change something they politicians creates and the police love (for the money and the ability to decide who gets fucked and who doesn't - also a big reason some police advocate to decriminalize pot and make it a fineable offence, more money for the province/state that is generated by "good" police work makes it easier for cops to demand more money at the next round of budget discussions.

Oops..rant filter needs replacing.
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Old 10-29-2013, 05:44 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by CanadianX View Post
Stunting laws here in Ontario, Canada also preclude standing while riding. Big fines and all that BS to collect cash to keep covering the escalating costs of policing....something wrong with having the police collecting victimless crime taxes so they can continue to grow their budgets. It's laws like this that give rise to mass rides of stunter punks. People eventually say fuck it and fuck the stupid laws simply because it will cost you a lot of money and time to change something they politicians creates and the police love (for the money and the ability to decide who gets fucked and who doesn't - also a big reason some police advocate to decriminalize pot and make it a fineable offence, more money for the province/state that is generated by "good" police work makes it easier for cops to demand more money at the next round of budget discussions.

Oops..rant filter needs replacing.
What he said.

Oh, and the first stunting charge the OPP laid against a biker standing on his pegs...he was riding a GS.
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