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Old 09-23-2013, 04:43 PM   #16
unclerichie OP
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Puncar,
When I stripped my starter down the grease shield looked similar. I'm not getting a clock reset but could that be my problem? I'm having a tough time visualizing how you reattached it. Mine looks like its floating around in there and I don't see a surface to attach it to.

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Old 09-23-2013, 07:40 PM   #17
roger 04 rt
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Originally Posted by puncar thogoole View Post
My 03 had exactly the same thing, it was the flat metal seal in the starter motor that keeps the grease in the planetary gears, this had moved and sometimes would touch the windings of the motor dead shorting them, that's when the clock goes to zero.

I stripped the motor (needed to drill some rivets out if I remember correctly) & fixed it securely back in place, 5 years later no problems.



The grease shield with clear signs of arcing against the armature windings.




Possibly your problem?
I had exactly this problem last year. It makes a brand new battery behave as if it is dead.

Back to the current issue ...

Has anyone tried the Beru stick coils?

Today I measured the primary and secondary resistance of both stick coils along with the leakage between pins. The primary resistance is pretty easy to measure with an ohmmeter between pins 1 and 3 of the connector.

The primary resistance is 1 ohm on both coils.

The secondary windings of the coil which create the spark because there is a diode inside the coil, and its forward voltage (Vf, the voltage to be overcome before current flows) is 0.7 to 0.8 volts, perhaps a bit higher.

The secondary resistance can be measured with an ammeter. The procedure is:

1. Carefully remove and disconnect the stick coil.
2. Measure the battery voltage (12.8V in my case)
3. Connect the motorcycle battery voltage to the output of the stick coil (where the sparkplug usually goes).
4. Set your ammeter to a 20 mA range.
5. Connect the Black (Ground) lead of your ammeter to the motorcycle's Ground.
6. Touch the Red lead of your ammeter to Pin 2 of the coil
7. Read the ammeter. In my case I measured 1.8 mA.

Calculate resistance as 12.8V - 0.8V (assumed Vf) for the diode inside the coil. That's 12V. Now divide that by 0.0018 Amps. Answer 6.7K Ohms.

Here is what the part fiche says at Max BMW:
12 13 7 715 853 IGNITION COIL - 1 KOHM (from 12/02)

So either the parts fiche is wrong, my coils are both bad or my 0.8V estimate for the diode's Vf is wrong. I'm going to try and measure Vf by adding a 9V battery to the 12V

Also, I had the coils in and out 4/5 times today. I'm a convert to the two screwdriver method for stick coil removal.

After all the back and forth with the coils, I made a cold start test. I didn't have the gauges on but it was the best start in a month.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:38 PM   #18
def
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My bike is the twin spark so I probably have a different problem. The simplest way to explain my situation is that the bike runs great and starts easily except first time. Since I have the LC-1 and GS-911, I can see three things:
1. The sensors all seem to be giving the Motronic the inputs expected.
2. The LC-1 was showing very lean combustion for the first 20 sec.
3. For about 20 sec. The spark advance hangs a zero degrees. Then it goes to about 6 degrees. Then things are fine. I believe the Motronic is waiting for the engine to be smooth after start to advance the spark timing.

I replaced the lower plugs and now it is only 10% leaner than normal during the start.

I've been through the fuel system, 100%. Also given the HES a careful test, rotating the engine from the front pulley. HES seems to trigger very consistently. Fuel pump turns on with each sensor, top and bottom.

The stick coils are next on my list and are now the prime suspect. I believe I had a fouled lower plug. And now with the lower (and then upper) plugs replaced the lower plugs are helping hide a weak stick coil.

Each stick coil will fire a 3/16" gap but when idling. Pulling the low voltage connector seems to affect one side more than the other. Also, over the past year I've had to reseat the low voltage connector on the left twice to get smooth idle (early warning on the stick?). The stick coils "look" fine.

I will try starting today with the lower plugs disabled and see if it will start on the uppers.
I always tested ignition coils for breakdown by spraying them with water, engine running in a dark garage at night and looking for arc-over or corona. This may not reveal anything if the breakdown is near the HT connection.
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:50 AM   #19
roger 04 rt
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I always tested ignition coils for breakdown by spraying them with water, engine running in a dark garage at night and looking for arc-over or corona. This may not reveal anything if the breakdown is near the HT connection.
Interesting. Someone else suggested I try an AM radio and compare static side to side.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:18 AM   #20
puncar thogoole
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Originally Posted by unclerichie View Post
Puncar,
When I stripped my starter down the grease shield looked similar. I'm not getting a clock reset but could that be my problem? I'm having a tough time visualizing how you reattached it. Mine looks like its floating around in there and I don't see a surface to attach it to.
If your grease shield had arcing marks on it, it is definitely not right!

It didn't re-set the clock every time, sometimes it'd start perfectly, sometimes it'd be hesitant & sometimes not turn over at all & the clock would go to zero, a big short circuit!

In the picture you can see the flared edges that are supposed to wedge it in place as it's push fit IIRC.
I melted a little of the surrounding plastic with a soldering iron, I know a bit bodgy but it isn't going to move again!
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:48 PM   #21
def
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Interesting. Someone else suggested I try an AM radio and compare static side to side.
What the heck is AM radio? Sounds very scientific.
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Old 09-26-2013, 02:02 PM   #22
roger 04 rt
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Originally Posted by Steptoe View Post
An 04 bike means you have a twin spark engine.

Are your main coil sticks working ? A very common part to fail.

To check pull off the HT leads on the lower plugs and see if the bike runs on just the main plugs which use coil sticks.
Thank you for this post. It put me on the right track. After replacing a fouled lower plug (changed both), the only symptom I had was the first start of the day was rough for 20 seconds. Then it smoothed out and all was fine.

To make a long story short, I put in new coils this morning and all is well. For anyone who's interested in the specifics: Slow Starting 2004 R1150 Fix.
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Old 10-05-2013, 07:59 PM   #23
unclerichie OP
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My solution was a little different. Puncars post got me thinking about why my shield was looking burned. My started was working but it continued to struggle. I ended up buying a new starter from another inmate and it solved my problem. She fires right up now. I'm not sure why it helped for me to turn the ignition on and off several times to run the fuel pump. Anyone have any ideas?

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Old 10-08-2013, 10:33 PM   #24
vagueout
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Originally Posted by unclerichie View Post
My solution was a little different. Puncars post got me thinking about why my shield was looking burned. My started was working but it continued to struggle. I ended up buying a new starter from another inmate and it solved my problem. She fires right up now. I'm not sure why it helped for me to turn the ignition on and off several times to run the fuel pump. Anyone have any ideas?

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Fuel pump relay would be a hot suspect.
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