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View Results: Fairness or expediency?
Wait your turn in line, rude dog! 28 28.87%
Bikes are small, cars are big. Life is unfair. 69 71.13%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-10-2013, 10:53 AM   #31
der_saeufer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaftEd View Post
Sit in line behind some SUV when I could easily slip by, make my turn, and be on my way? Are you kidding me? I do it ALL the time here in SoCal. Only caveat is that if the right turn involves getting into a marked bicycle lane before the right turn, then you can get a ticket. Other than that, it's all fair game.
Don't forget the 200' rule in California, though...

21209 VC. (a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle in a bicycle lane established on a roadway pursuant to Section 21207 except as follows:
...
(3) To prepare for a turn within a distance of 200 feet from the intersection.

I used that all the time to squirt past 4 or so cars when I was turning right but they weren't.

(and don't forget that you are required to block the bike lane for some unspecified distance when turning, 21717 VC. People that turn across bike lanes p!ss me off because most of them don't use their blinkers.)
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:58 AM   #32
IronJackWhitton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
"Advanced Green" ? Do street departments still use "Delayed Green" instead of left turn arrows? I haven't seen a Delayed Green on a city street since I was a kid.

When you're turning right on a red, you are supposed to yield to any traffic. If you were on your bike and turning right, you should've yielded to the left-turning Subie.
Absolutely correct, I should have yielded.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by delayed green -- in my city we sometimes have "advanced green" in which a left turn arrow allows for left turning traffic before the general green light allows other traffic to proceed; we also sometimes have this same arrow AFTER the general green. It's always a separate light -- it doesn't always face both ways though (i.e. one direction of traffic may have a delayed green left turn arrow but the other does not). This was that situation.

So, I saw the lights facing me go to yellow, so I snuck around to the right of the car in front of me to make the turn. I did the usual check for traffic coming from the left (thinking the oncoming cars making a left turn also had a red light). Seeing the traffic from the left not moving yet, I proceeded into my turn.

The Subaru got her left turn arrow and whipped left, just as I was half way through my right turn. She didn't see me making my right turn; I presume because of the vehicle I was sneaking beside (it still wasn't her fault in my opinion).

She managed to stop before hitting me on the side, and I sheepishly gave her an apologetic wave and drove off.

Still - had I waited my turn, I would not have been sneaking beside a vehicle, and the Subaru would have had a better chance of seeing me earlier, and I of seeing them starting to move.

Now I know we are all responsible for our own safety and can't control other drivers and drive like your invisible etc. -- I get all that, but made a mistake, which was compounded by the behavior highlighted by the OP's question. So I think while in some cases this is a perfectly fine technique to use, it can increase the risk in some intersections.

Regards
Craig
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:08 AM   #33
lnewqban
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Watch for pedestrians crossing left to right just in front of the first car in line....... and for suddenly opening doors..... yes, I have ended up in the rear seat of a taxi that way.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:51 AM   #34
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Depends.

If I know the light just turned red, so I know it won't turn green as I'm beside the car wanting to turn right.

And I can see that the car in front of me with their blinker on does not have room to go by, so I know the car with their blinker on isn't just waiting for something I can't see.

AND I can reasonably infer that the car in front of that car is not going to turn right (takes more than a lack of turn signals).

Then I would go.

I've had people pull to the right of me to make a right turn when I was trying to turn right. In this particular case the road is poorly designed, as the right turn lane is a full lane width away from the right curb. But it wasn't cool for me to check for traffic and start to proceed to find that somebody else had placed their driver's door where I was trying to go. I've also seen people wait for a few seconds before deciding they had enough room to squeeeze by in their car.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:06 PM   #35
LittleRedToyota
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one thing to keep in mind is that sometimes, people turn without using their turn signals (ok, more than just sometimes...).

just because the guy at the front of the line does not have his turn signal on, does not mean he is not waiting to turn right on red. further, some people stare left waiting for a hole it traffic when they are doing that and don't check back to the right before going when they have a hole. (they should not do that, obviously, but you have to deal with what people actually do...not what they should do.)

this can all add up to he and you colliding if you are filtering along the right to turn right on red.

just something to keep in mind and be careful of.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:06 PM   #36
rocker59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronJackWhitton View Post
I'm not 100% sure what you mean by delayed green -- in my city we sometimes have "advanced green" in which a left turn arrow allows for left turning traffic before the general green light allows other traffic to proceed; we also sometimes have this same arrow AFTER the general green. It's always a separate light --

Regards
Craig
I've never heard a "left turn arrow" referred to as an "advanced green", that's why I thought you meant "delayed green".

Basically, a "delayed green" was something used before the "left turn arrows" and left turn lanes came into common practice. In a delayed green, one direction of traffic would get the green before the other direction, allowing the traffic getting the green first to turn left. There would be a "Delayed Green" sign posted on the arm holding the traffic light. The delay would be something like 5-seconds, allowing a couple cars to turn left before the opposing traffic started moving. Obviously, this was not something for real high traffic. I used to see this in my hometown on streets near downtown that had no left turn lane. But, it's been thirty years since I've seen one.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:12 PM   #37
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I agree not the safest move. If the car in front of me isn't turning I would squeak by however if there is one or more cars waiting to turn I wait.

I'm just not in that big of a hurry.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:29 PM   #38
ShaftEd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by der_saeufer View Post
Don't forget the 200' rule in California, though...

21209 VC. (a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle in a bicycle lane established on a roadway pursuant to Section 21207 except as follows:
...
(3) To prepare for a turn within a distance of 200 feet from the intersection.

Nice, thanks for the info.
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:57 PM   #39
Kent Glasscock
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Kind of a reiteration of what other's have posted. For me. If I have to turn right at an intersection. And on the street in front of the light has one of those arrows where one goes straight and the other turns right and there is ONE car waiting at the light then I will go between said car and sidewalk or parked cars to take a right turn on red. And yes, I do keep to the left if I'm in the right lane so that cars can turn right (hope that didn't sound confusing).

I asked a police friend of mine and he said it's okay to do but if there is more than one care in front and I try then it's illegal. Do different states have different rules on this? I know for instance, NC is one of the few states you cannot take a left turn on red when entering a one way street.

Quick story, Going to work at 6am about a month ago came to the usual single lane stop light intersection right before I enter my work place (just like the one described above). No cars around except the one in front. Light was red. For some reason, the lady stopped more than a car length from the line. Left blinker on. I'm turning right so I filter between her and the parked car. Plenty of room between us but still cautious. Sure enough, I get the honk. First time I ever had that happen so I just stopped, turned around, and pointed to the pavement arrows, and continued on. I guess she thought I wasn't being safe or I was doing something illegal. Meh.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:05 PM   #40
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:33 PM   #41
IronJackWhitton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocker59 View Post
I've never heard a "left turn arrow" referred to as an "advanced green", that's why I thought you meant "delayed green".

Basically, a "delayed green" was something used before the "left turn arrows" and left turn lanes came into common practice. In a delayed green, one direction of traffic would get the green before the other direction, allowing the traffic getting the green first to turn left. There would be a "Delayed Green" sign posted on the arm holding the traffic light. The delay would be something like 5-seconds, allowing a couple cars to turn left before the opposing traffic started moving. Obviously, this was not something for real high traffic. I used to see this in my hometown on streets near downtown that had no left turn lane. But, it's been thirty years since I've seen one.
Interesting! I've never seen that before. Before my time perhaps, but I can see how that might work.

We sometimes have a flashing green to indicate it's an advanced green (rather than a green arrow), but they are less common now.

Thanks for clarifying!
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:49 PM   #42
Aj Mick
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Turning left here and in most countries i have ridden in outside Europe, but the principle is the same....... Expediency rules, not etiquette.

In any case in Thailand, for most intersections the law (for what it is worth here) allows free left turn if it is safe to do so, even if the lights are red....... in other words use your judgment.
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Old 10-11-2013, 03:07 AM   #43
Mat
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Originally Posted by Random-Water View Post
IMHO the riders safety is INCREASED because;
1. His hind end isn't waiting to get rear-ended behind you.
2. his side is well protected by your vehicle/vehicle in front of you.

Lastly...WTF ever happened to simple (formerly common) courtesy? If you CAN let someone proceed in travel (foot, car/truck, bicycle, skateboard, scooter or motorcycle) unhindered, you should do so, as long as no one's safety is affected.

Need more fiber in your diet?
There, simple isn't it.

Dangerous??? Some of you guys need a diaper change. Seriously.
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Old 10-11-2013, 05:35 AM   #44
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I won't do this if the line of waiting cars is longer than three or four, epsecially if there are any turn signals flashing. Just a couple of cars waiting to go straight, yeah, I'll do it if there's plenty of room.

The long row of cars makes me really nervous, because if the light turns green before I get to the front, I'm now in an incredibly dangerous position and have no idea who's coming up behind to turn right on top of me.
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Old 10-11-2013, 05:42 AM   #45
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I did it twice yesterday

I am like LuciferMut though, only if there are a handful of cars or less mostly going straight.
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