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Old 10-12-2013, 09:15 AM   #61
atomicalex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelerider View Post
A lot of BMW riders do their own maintenance, and I wonder how this affects the reliability rating.
If I'd been doing my own maintenance, I wouldn't have needed a new engine.

I'm a long-time VW owner, therefore generally disqualified from discussions about reliability.....
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:41 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by anotherguy View Post
Why is it that I see far more serious high mileage Harleys and BMWs? I've seen a few high mileage jap bikes but many more of the two mentioned. The very definition of conundrum. Could it be that the Japoanese bikes are still viewed as disposable?

Hell I've got an Italian bike with 100K+ on it so WTF do I know?






One of my Harleys has 3 times that on it.
Perseverance of an enthusiast?

High mileage on a bike is all about the rider. People buy HD, BMW, European for different reasons than others buy UJM. When summer ends and the weather turns bad, the remaining bikes are an eclectic mix of everything, its the riders not the bikes.

At 85,000 my 07 Ural has has more mileage on it than your typical UJM, my 01 V-Star has 1/4 the mileage. I purchased both new. There is no doubt the Yamaha is the better bike, but the Ural fuels my passion.

Metric cruisers Vs, HD is the perfect example.
The metrics have the style down pat now, their engineering has so surpassed HD that they need to use fake covers to hide the superior engineering and make them look more primitive, they do everything so well and smoothly within their limitations they are almost sterile.
Metrics may be "superior", but they lack some of the endearing characteristics that make them engaging to enthusiasts as sales numbers show.

Harley's are like a good, well trained dog, a companion.
Metrics are like a dedicated, motivated assistant, a means to an end.

A dog is a friend, a member of the family that you love, and you forgive its faults.
An assistant is an employee, if they start messing up, you fire them and get a new one.

A "reliable" bike has little value if you don't ride it because its boring. A bike with "character" has little value if you dont ride it because its annoying.

Edit,
I don't mean to imply Harleys are in any way inferior, they are just built with a different philosophy, no need to break out the pitchforks and torches..
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windmill screwed with this post 10-12-2013 at 10:18 AM
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:45 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Red9 View Post
And yet you don't understand the inherent benefit of a Torx head over a Hex...

My suggestion is not to be a DIY'er.
Quick, look up! Right above you!

Shit, it's gone already
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Old 10-12-2013, 03:42 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by MiteyF View Post
I've studied fastener stress/choice thoroughly, and in fact I have a degree in vehicle design. I know how fucking bolts work. There's no reason to use torx heads to hold on a fucking sprocket cover. I'm just saying that BMW seems to make things overly complicated for the DIY'er for no reason. One of the very basic principles of designing a new product (say, oh, a motorcycle) is that you use the simplest, most readily available parts possible, and you standardize. That means if you can get M6x1.0 bolts with a 10mm hex head cheaper than the same with a torx head, and you need 40 of them on a bike, you fucking use the hex head so long as it meets all of the requirements. It will save the company money, save the customer money, and be generally "better" in the long run. The whole bolt thing is just an example of one of my gripes with BMW. I'm not saying I refuse to buy one because of their fastener choice
You must have failed that class!

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Old 10-12-2013, 05:00 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Perseverance of an enthusiast?

High mileage on a bike is all about the rider. People buy HD, BMW, European for different reasons than others buy UJM. When summer ends and the weather turns bad, the remaining bikes are an eclectic mix of everything, its the riders not the bikes.

At 85,000 my 07 Ural has has more mileage on it than your typical UJM, my 01 V-Star has 1/4 the mileage. I purchased both new. There is no doubt the Yamaha is the better bike, but the Ural fuels my passion.

Metric cruisers Vs, HD is the perfect example.
The metrics have the style down pat now, their engineering has so surpassed HD that they need to use fake covers to hide the superior engineering and make them look more primitive, they do everything so well and smoothly within their limitations they are almost sterile.
Metrics may be "superior", but they lack some of the endearing characteristics that make them engaging to enthusiasts as sales numbers show.

Harley's are like a good, well trained dog, a companion.
Metrics are like a dedicated, motivated assistant, a means to an end.

A dog is a friend, a member of the family that you love, and you forgive its faults.
An assistant is an employee, if they start messing up, you fire them and get a new one.

A "reliable" bike has little value if you don't ride it because its boring. A bike with "character" has little value if you dont ride it because its annoying.

Edit,
I don't mean to imply Harleys are in any way inferior, they are just built with a different philosophy, no need to break out the pitchforks and torches..
LMAO you harley owners keep telling yourselves that

a bike that breaks down and is primitive has "character"
a significantly more refined and reliable bike is "sterile"
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:55 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by JimVonBaden View Post
You must have failed that class!

Jim
you think...

Get's a little angry when he's run out of excuses too...
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:05 PM   #67
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Track miles take a tad longer to accumulate than Interstate parade miles. Just say'n.




And it's not just BMW that do odd things...just because. Take Suzuki's oil filters, I can walk into any NAPA, Autozone, or even Walmart and get an oil filter for a Kawasaki, Yamaha or Honda. But Suzuki has to use their own special thread size on their filters. Meh.
Then again it could be part of the brand loyalty program...if you bought all the tools you need to work on a BMW how many latte's worth of new tools would all these high mileage Bavarian DIY'ers have to buy if they went Nippon?


Oh and as a frame of reference, I ride a ZX-6 with 180k'ish on it. 150k I have put on in the last six years, and the only time it has left me stranded by the side of the road is when it snapped a throttle cable I knew I should have replaced.
Then again, I've ridden with guys that put monster miles on their sportbikes, but change them like their underwear (bonus points goes to the retired steelworker that had a Bandit when I met him, and over six seasons has gone through a dozen bikes).
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:34 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red9 View Post
you think...

Get's a little angry when he's run out of excuses too...
Common sense is not an excuse

Let me guess, you're a BMW owner?
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:11 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by mrphotoman View Post
LMAO you harley owners keep telling yourselves that

a bike that breaks down and is primitive has "character"
a significantly more refined and reliable bike is "sterile"
You seemed to miss that I own a "sterile" reliable metric, a V-Star 650 classic, not a Harley, but I do get the attraction, it just wasn't for me, I prefer smaller bikes.

I also own a Ural, its very basic like a farm tractor or a flat fender jeep, and enjoy it for that reason, but it has been reliable and very functional for everyday use.

I don't consider breaking down or poor function character.
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:54 AM   #70
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For all of the bitching about fasteners in this thread, you guys sure have a limited view on the world.

Torx is a standard fastener developed to reduce damage to the tool insertion point due to overtorquing. They are great. Why not use them is a better question.

Also, for those unschooled in German vehicles, I can see why you think the toolage is weird, but it is quite standard across all German vehicles. I joke that I keep buying VWs because I already have all the tools - they all work on the BMW, too. In fact, the basic tool group for all German vehicles is pretty standard. 5, 6, 7, 8mm Allen, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 24, 32mm hex head, and T20, 25, 27, 30, 45. There are a few oddballs here or there, but this stuff is all pretty easily accessed from the tool shop.....

If you want to complain about tools, GM and Ford use security Torx in certain applications. Now that is stupid.
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Old 10-13-2013, 03:11 AM   #71
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Harley uses torx too.

Fasteners weren't what I was talking about when I brought up BMW's don't seem to be designed for easy repair or roadside repair.

Mainly I was referring to the computer which won't display diagnostic codes without being hooked to BMW specific equipment.
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Old 10-13-2013, 05:25 AM   #72
MiteyF
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Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
For all of the bitching about fasteners in this thread, you guys sure have a limited view on the world.

Torx is a standard fastener developed to reduce damage to the tool insertion point due to overtorquing. They are great. Why not use them is a better question.

Also, for those unschooled in German vehicles, I can see why you think the toolage is weird, but it is quite standard across all German vehicles. I joke that I keep buying VWs because I already have all the tools - they all work on the BMW, too. In fact, the basic tool group for all German vehicles is pretty standard. 5, 6, 7, 8mm Allen, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22, 24, 32mm hex head, and T20, 25, 27, 30, 45. There are a few oddballs here or there, but this stuff is all pretty easily accessed from the tool shop.....

If you want to complain about tools, GM and Ford use security Torx in certain applications. Now that is stupid.
Suzuki uses safety torx too. It's to keep people who don't know what they're doing from dicking with stuff that could fuck their bike up. It's a completely different purpose.
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Old 10-13-2013, 05:51 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by MiteyF View Post
Suzuki uses safety torx too. It's to keep people who don't know what they're doing from dicking with stuff that could fuck their bike up. It's a completely different purpose.
Torx bolts are fine.




They don't take any longer to center drill the head out than any other stupid bolt.

It does take a minute to d find which one on the swing set matches it though.
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Old 10-13-2013, 11:50 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by JeffinTD View Post
It was a 99. If I recall I think they later had a service bulletin for wide glides for the same problem.
Really? I call bullshit.

The oil tank is cast aluminum and bolted to the bottom of the transmission. The vent is plumbed from the crankcase into the transmission filler spout which is also cast alloy and bolted to the side of the transmission housing. The fitting is tapped 1/8" NPT into the side of the filler cap spout and the crankcase. If the fitting is there the hole is drilled and tapped. You cannot braze aluminum and there was never any such TSB as the Dyna tank is of similar construction.
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:05 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by HanShotFirst View Post
The Japanese just know how to build a quality bike. The Star (Yamaha) cruisers look nearly as good as a Harley, ride better, perform better, don't rattle your nuts off, are more reliable, and significantly less money. With the exception of the GS series, the Japanese have BMW beat in every category but snob appeal. .
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