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Old 10-15-2013, 09:17 PM   #31
dom1104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry1976 View Post
Thats a BS statement, I guess its how you raise and teach them, perhaps yours can't drive or ride but mine ride better than many who have been riding for years.
Teach them young and teach them well.
Its not a BS statement it is a widely known and proven fact.

Which is why insurance costs so much more for a 16 year old, than it does for a 18 year old.

And my oldest is 5, so yeah, yours can definitely drive better.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:39 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Earth Rider View Post
Sorry, but you sound like you're still 16.
You sound like you're still a windbag.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:19 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by nwpa View Post
I'm starting to not take you seriously. Maybe you should think about how your father feels and stop riding all-together?

My son is 24.
nwpa - I come here for good discussion. I think your posts are antagonistic. Not in the spirit of the place. Not that it's really relevant, but my father is dead - from a car crash. Don't care for internet rudeness..

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Old 10-15-2013, 10:23 PM   #34
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I appreciate some folks attempt to have a good discussion about this issue. Our street passion is dangerous as hell. And, if you look at the statistics for younger drivers it multiplies the statistics many fold. We ride dirt together and they have ridden on the back of my street bikes. On one hand I think it would be cool to have them grow up riding street together with me. On the other, it scares the crap out of me. Just looking for others who have been through the same thing.

PS - I don't have the same concern with dirt. It can hurt you. I have quite a list myself. But I put it in a similar level as say playing football.

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Old 10-15-2013, 10:45 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Earth Rider View Post
just google it and draw your own conclusions. it's out there. here's one.

http://brainconnection.positscience....for-teenagers/

you are arguing with science. despite how mature a teenager you thought you were, it's little help for the rest of us parents who can't tell the difference between who you thought you were and our own children.
I'm arguing that everyone is different and the parents need to judge their own child. Your argument that teenagers can't make rational decisions at all doesn't jive with reality nor the article you quoted. You are lumping everyone in together. The article used the near identical reference I did for Pete's sake regarding drunk driving.

"the researchers found that when processing emotions, adults have greater activity in their frontal lobes than do teenagers"

It doesn't say NO frontal lobe activity, just not as much. So how much frontal lobe activity does it take to ride a motorcycle? Can you gauge that? I'm sure everyone here can agree there are many teenagers that have more emotional control and rational thought than many adults out there. I'd argue it's part nature part nurture, nobody is created equal, that isn't hard to see.

" For example, when deciding whether to ride in a car driven by a drunk friend, an adult can usually put aside her desire to conform and is more likely to make the rational decision against drunk driving. However, a teenager’s immature frontal lobes may not be capable of such a coolly rational approach, and the emotional feelings of friendship may be likely to win the battle."

I chose not to drive drunk or be in the car with drunk drivers, what is your answer to that? That I was held back for 10 years and was really 25 in 10th grade? No, that something in my brain said that it wasn't a good idea. So how is it in my brain but not my classmates who drove drunk and died?

"The results from these studies do not mean that a teenager will always make irrational decisions. "

The article says my exact argument, what say you? Science is based on trial and error. My trial and error was actually being a teenager, turns out I'm pretty close to the mark and I didn't go to Stanford. And anybody in the science world knows it's in constant flux and something that comes out tomorrow may contradict this. The article is not concrete about anything, it "suggests" but never flat out says anything concrete. "May be closer to understanding". "Studies show correlation". You get the picture.

If teenagers couldn't make any rational decisions then it would be a bit early to go to college/war/drive/etc, but that isn't the case. Things are rarely black and white, I'd argue the brain is a shade of gray...matter...
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:10 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by shakeybone View Post
I worry about my daughter (just turned 15) when she rides her ATV with me, rides on the back of my bike, water skis, plays soccer, goes out for a jog, goes kayaking, or goes on a date.
She is already talking about her first street bike and when that day comes I will worry about that too. But on the other hand I am passing on my passions. That did not happen with her older sister (27) or her brother (29).
My parents didn't want me to ride on the street, but didn't try to stop me, even after my crash in 1983 that left me unconscious for 13 hours.
As a parent I will always worry about my kids, and pray for them, but when I look at the enjoyment motorcycling has brought me, the people I have met, the experience's I have had, how can I try to deny her that.
Aye, I've done all the same stuff with my daughter and have come to the same conclusion shakybone, you can't wrap them in cotton wool, they have to be allowed to grow on there own...its all part of growing up for them and growing old for us, its a shite deal for every parent but it also lets us know how our parents felt when we where tear arseing about. Strangely enough shakybones my daughter had her 1st date last night, I sat in the house with my dinner on my lap with one half of me feeling sorry for myself and the other feeling pretty good that's she's growing up normally.
P.S. I did have my bike gear on though and the bike parked right outside the house...just in case.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:55 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by mikem9 View Post
nwpa - I come here for good discussion. I think your posts are antagonistic. Not in the spirit of the place. Not that it's really relevant, but my father is dead - from a car crash. Don't care for internet rudeness..
My point is that it's extremely hypocrytical to engage in a behavior you apparently enjoy while looking to deny that same pleasure from your child. I'm not implying you won't worry about your child, but worry is what you sign up for as a parent. If you are serious here, sell the bike and retire the gear, but don't ride while trying to tell your kids it's too dangerous for them.
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:07 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by mikem9 View Post

PS - I don't have the same concern with dirt. It can hurt you. I have quite a list myself. But I put it in a similar level as say playing football.
Interestingly, I know many parents who refuse to allow their children to play football for fear of being hurt. I'm not suggesting a parent, yourself included, doesn't have the right on what lines to draw, but as a parent you do have an obligation to "walk the walk".
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:08 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by joexr View Post
By the time I was 16 , I was already riding for 9 years. Don't wait.

I was a late bloomer started I had only been riding dirt for 8 years but two on the street with a 250cc restricted license....that I totally ignored the restrictions on.


On Topic:

My Mom hated that I was interested in anything with an engine. I did my first sub-11 second pass on a drag strip at 8-9 with by father. My first ride on a motorcycle was with the nextdoor neighbor at maybe four. No shirt, No shoes, no lid, NO PROBLEM (this was 1982-1983) I dragged my first non-functional dirtbike home in return for raking a yard....at 8 years old. My Mom STILL 26 years later bitches at me every time she sees a motorcycle...whether or not its mine or if I'm riding it or not...my father has passed, so I can't call him for carb advise anymore.

My Pops was a gearhead, he was a mechanic by trade, but he wasn't a rider, he knew how to ride a motorcycle, he took off on mine more than once, it just wasn't something that got him going, 1/4 mile was his thing, always was.

They made their opinions on the subject known ...loudly, in some case (something about a block long wheelie ) but for the most part I was allowed to make my own decisions, it was rare that my parents flat put their foot down, unless it was something illegal.
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Show folks something with a clutch and carburetor, and it's like teaching a baboon to use a Macbook.

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Old 10-16-2013, 03:13 AM   #40
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Told my brother I'd get my nephew a new cbr250r for his 18th b-day, and the response was "and the next day you'll see it on Ebay"...oy! Hindsightwise, bike gifts should accompany msf or similar course, even if the young learner's permit holder has experience off-roading.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:17 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by devo2002 View Post
The article says my exact argument, what say you?
It seems like your argument is more with the wording I used than the actual point I was making. Teenagers are not equipped to make decisions as well as adults. Research on brain development shows this, car insurance rates show this. That's all I was saying.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:32 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by devo2002 View Post
If teenagers couldn't make any rational decisions then it would be a bit early to go to college/war/drive/etc, but that isn't the case.
I think most people would say that it is the case. Look at college success rates.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:18 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Earth Rider View Post
I think most people would say that it is the case. Look at college success rates.

Half of that is because most of college is bullshit.
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Show folks something with a clutch and carburetor, and it's like teaching a baboon to use a Macbook.
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:09 AM   #44
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Hi all ! I met my current significant other 15 years ago . Her son was 12 . After we were together for a year or two , he was really fixed on getting a sportbike as soon as he was legally able . His mom was totally against any motorcycle of any kind . I finally convinced her to let us get a couple dirtbikes so I could teach him . I have been riding since 1973 and , at the time of all this , was on a 6 year hiatus from riding . I bought two brand new Honda's... a 230L and a xr250 . Taught him to ride dirt and he never wanted a sportbike again . Today we both ride 450exc's , he is 27 and a college professor . We dualsport these bikes but we try to ride dirt as much as possible , I just don't enjoy the street as much as I used to . The best we can do is guide ( not force ) the young ones the direction we wish them to go , if they don't ... at least we tried .

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Old 10-16-2013, 06:44 AM   #45
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Mike,

Both our adult children ride street bikes.

Our 23y.o. son rides occasionally, mostly all secondary roads in our very rural area. He is on the very cautious end of the spectrum.


I worry more about our 26y.o. daughter. She lives on the opposite coast with her fiance. They both ride 600cc sport bikes. ATGATT REALLY ALL THE TIME
I have talked to her several times about the danger of riding on the street.

She is realistic about this and has experienced two wheeled danger- since the age of 14 she has raced road bicycles. She has been in cycling races where the group will hit a 50+mph downhill, wearing only a helmet, jersey and shorts......
She has gone down several times and has looked like a partial bandage mummy as a result.

Jen loves riding her ZX6R, has done track days and we have had some really great day trips and a couple longer ones.

None of this changes my concern- I'll always worry- but we all understand the dangers involved.

John
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