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Old 10-21-2013, 04:38 PM   #31
snoman002
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Each gear.

One, its easier to count, but more than that its feel. Counting is the correct way to do it, knowing which gear to be in for every corner, but for us non-track junkies the gear number isn't as set for each corner and we don't have to try and think 'was it down two here, or three?' on the ever so critical corner entrance. This way we can ride by feel too, not just math. Sure, I've gone one more gear than I should have and ended up with a bike redlined before the corner exit and no more to give, and I've done the other way too and ended up putting out of the corner. But at least I had that feel of the bike and engine before I made that decision. I would rather have that then end up getting a great drive off the last corner and find now the next corner is a bottom of third corner and not a top of second corner like it was last time AFTER I let the clutch out in second (track noobs here remember).
Two, your still letting the engine spin down some in that last gear before you tip in. Blip it and let it spin down while your finishing your braking. You don't blip and downshift exactly to the RPM your going to run the corner with (not us noobs anyways), so get it done early and focus on the more important parts, like smooth throttle application, and entry points, don't try and smash all that in at your most critical moment.

The blip takes a while to learn, but is possible on near every bike. But, increase the displacement and lower the number of cylinders and the margin for error gets smaller. I can blip a 600 inline like nothing, my 1000 CC twin was a bit harder, and my single took a while to learn (yes, I blip an XRL). Just practice blipping it without the brakes, completely slowing down to 1st by engine alone. Once you get that down, work on adding some front brake in, a little at first and then work you way up. But, if you can't blip one gear at a time, what makes you think doing 2 or 3 will be better.

Now, the kicker. Not using the engine to brake is better, and typically faster, from what I have heard.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:36 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by ZiaThunder View Post
In short, you down shift before you roll off. Sounds odd, I know, but it works.
I do something like that, but only on the street, I can't say I've ever tried that at track pace. I basically clutch with the throttle steady and it just sort of "falls" into the right RPM.

Of course I don't usually blip and brake at once in traffic, not enough tension on the brakes to do it smoothly.
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:20 AM   #33
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This is as good a place as any to pose this question:
Do you have more traction in a turn when you are coasting with the clutch in or when driving the rear with maintenance throttle.

It seems to me that coasting does, because you aren't consuming traction at the rear to overcome wind resistance, but I have been wrong before.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:37 AM   #34
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ooh ooh.... This one is easy.

NEVER coast in a corner. You have a harder time turning in if you are coasting and you have less clearance if you are coasting mid corner.

Much safer to be on the gas.

My scarest moments at the track have been when I've hit a false netural or actuall netural and couldn't get on the gas in the turn. It's the only time I've dragged hard parts in a corner. (well, before I started racing the 250, but that another story)

I know you asked about traction, but if you don't have clearance. Traction doesn't really matter. It's also easier to lose the front coasting, need to get more weight transfered to the back tire, (larger contact patch) as soon as you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beendog View Post
This is as good a place as any to pose this question:
Do you have more traction in a turn when you are coasting with the clutch in or when driving the rear with maintenance throttle.

It seems to me that coasting does, because you aren't consuming traction at the rear to overcome wind resistance, but I have been wrong before.

ZiaThunder screwed with this post 10-22-2013 at 06:39 AM Reason: I can't spell
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:40 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Tripped1 View Post
... I basically clutch with the throttle steady and it just sort of "falls" into the right RPM....
.
Exactly! Unless you play with it, it is rather hard to wrap your head around it.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:48 AM   #36
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CJxzyXFuj9c

an example of what coasting through a corner is like verse what being on the gas is like...

IT's a couple of laps around the local track. You can hear a downshift not blipping in the first 10 sec. The the going to netural, then a couple more corners, then more downshifting.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:42 AM   #37
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Thumbs down its spoiled

Never ever ever ever ever ever Short shift
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:12 AM   #38
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If I'm coasting through a corner the bike is broken


....and that is why your name is familiar, the 675.net =D
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:56 AM   #39
ZiaThunder
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Never ever ever ever ever ever Short shift

There are places where it can serve you well. There are a few tracks where short shifting in a couple of the sections can keep you from highsiding yourself to the moon.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:57 AM   #40
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If I'm coasting through a corner the bike is broken

....and that is why your name is familiar, the 675.net =D

Yup... That would be me. I love racing that 675.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:17 PM   #41
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Yes, most people downshift through each gear, one at a time, until they reach the gear desired.

BUT, that is NOT the only way it can be done.

Tom Kipp, AMA privateer and factory rider, used to downshift through to the gear he wanted for that corner, THEN engage with the clutch to power through the corner. It worked very well for him, but I never could get the hang of doing it that way.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:20 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Florida Lime View Post
Yes, most people downshift through each gear, one at a time, until they reach the gear desired.

BUT, that is NOT the only way it can be done.

Tom Kipp, AMA privateer and factory rider, used to downshift through to the gear he wanted for that corner, THEN engage with the clutch to power through the corner. It worked very well for him, but I never could get the hang of doing it that way.
On a track (road course) that you know well , that's fine , but not for an inexperienced and/or on an unfamilar corner. On dirt if you drop several gears and dump the clutch there's little penalty for skipping the tire across the ground.

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Old 10-22-2013, 04:46 PM   #43
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Most of the posts on this page do reference the track, and since when did "engage the clutch" become "dump the clutch" ?
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:55 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beendog View Post
This is as good a place as any to pose this question:
Do you have more traction in a turn when you are coasting with the clutch in or when driving the rear with maintenance throttle.

It seems to me that coasting does, because you aren't consuming traction at the rear to overcome wind resistance, but I have been wrong before.
You have more traction under power, the idea being to get weight onto the fat back tire (this is why sportbikes have a heavy front end bias) when coasting at speed you are loading the hell out of the front and risking a washout.

Fun fact, you actually have more traction with a slight bit of slip happening than you do without it.

Granted all of this primarily applies when you are nearing the limit of traction, and with today's tires that is moving pretty good. I've had my 675 on its front wheel with a 25-30 degree lean on it.
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:14 PM   #45
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Most of the posts on this page do reference the track, and since when did "engage the clutch" become "dump the clutch" ?
Your not good on dirt , huh?
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