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View Results: Fairness or expediency?
Wait your turn in line, rude dog! 28 28.87%
Bikes are small, cars are big. Life is unfair. 69 71.13%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-17-2013, 12:59 PM   #61
LittleRedToyota
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Originally Posted by High Country Herb View Post
If car number 1 is turning left blocking traffic, it is OK to go around. What if there is another car behind them waiting to go straight? Something tells me that would be pushing it, and likely get me an "illegal pass" ticket.
i will sometimes pass on the right in that situation, but can be a bit sketchy from a safety standpoint. (not sure about the legality...i doubt it is legal around here, though.)

sometimes the driver of the car waiting to go straight has an epiphany at some point and realizes he can pass on the right, too. and then he just swings out to the right without looking to see if anyone is passing him on the right. if you are beside him at that "aha!" moment...

so i only do it if there is a lot of room, and i can get by quickly...and i'm in a hurry for some reason.
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Old 10-21-2013, 10:50 AM   #62
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So you want every LEO to strictly follows the laws? No more, no less?
Lol if you want to see how that is come over here and I'll buy you a beer - no, ten! - if you can get a warning out of a policeman

Sometimes I am not sure what is worse - this or open corruption. Well actually corruption is I guess, but still.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:42 PM   #63
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So you want every LEO to strictly follows the laws? No more, no less?


Be careful with that. I know that inventing a law that doesn't exist is one thing and giving someone a break about a real law if the situation allows it is another. But if you/we really ask the cops to apply the laws by the book, we better don't whine if we get ticketed for "speeding" at 61mph in a 60mph zone.
I just want them to take a little more interest in ethics and less interest in tactical baton training.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:03 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Fluklowskli View Post
You're sitting in your car at a stoplight, waiting to turn right because a car in front of you is going straight and there's no turn lane. Your blinker is on. A motorcyclist passes between you and the curb, and turns right.

Rude? Unfair? Or acceptable, if the room is there?
We risk our lives on bikes. We get to make right turns faster. That's the deal.
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:31 AM   #65
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We risk our lives on bikes. We get to make right turns faster. That's the deal.

yes
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:24 PM   #66
LittleRedToyota
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We risk our lives on bikes. We get to make right turns faster. That's the deal.
a "deal" requires two sides coming to mutual and voluntary agreement...not one side making a decision and then forcing that decision on the other side. you do not get to concoct some "deal" in your head and then unilaterally impose it.

if you ever get pulled over for it, please tape record when you try to tell either the cop or the judge about your "deal" and post it. should be pretty funny...

unfortunately, if you get "j-hooked" because of it (you thought the car was going straight, but really he was waiting to turn right), it won't be so funny.

(riding motorcycles does not make us special. it does not convey upon us any special privileges. it is not a "deal" and does not entitle us to anything.)

LittleRedToyota screwed with this post 10-23-2013 at 12:41 PM
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:03 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
unfortunately, if you get "j-hooked" because of it (you thought the car was going straight, but really he was waiting to turn right), it won't be so funny.
In most states, the car driver is still in the wrong in this case. If you're turning right, you need to move all the way to the right side of the lane. Even where not legally required, it's still driver's ed 101. Turning without signalling when other vehicles are around is also universally illegal.

Of course, the motorcyclist can also get cited for splitting the gap depending on local laws and how wide the lane is. But in a lot of places, it's quite common for the right lane to be wide enough for two cars to pass (slowly) and universally understood that you move right to turn right. When some asshat sits in the center of a lane that's 16' wide (and clearly intended for right-turners to slip past), you better believe I'll slip past him on the bike, unless he's signalling or otherwise looks like he's going to turn right.

A similar crash happened to a friend; he was in a car turning right from next to the curb (in the 50-60' no-parking zone set aside for that very purpose) and a dumbass in a pickup turned right from the left side of the very wide lane. Pickup driver got cited.
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:15 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by der_saeufer View Post
In most states, the car driver is still in the wrong in this case. If you're turning right, you need to move all the way to the right side of the lane. Even where not legally required, it's still driver's ed 101. Turning without signalling when other vehicles are around is also universally illegal.

Of course, the motorcyclist can also get cited for splitting the gap depending on local laws and how wide the lane is. But in a lot of places, it's quite common for the right lane to be wide enough for two cars to pass (slowly) and universally understood that you move right to turn right. When some asshat sits in the center of a lane that's 16' wide (and clearly intended for right-turners to slip past), you better believe I'll slip past him on the bike.

A similar crash happened to a friend in Denver; he was in a car turning right from next to the curb and a dumbass in a pickup turned right from the left side of the very wide lane. Pickup driver got cited.
regardless of who is legally at fault, getting j-hooked by a car while on a bike can turn out badly for us. it's just something to think about.

i do it at times, too, but i don't kid myself about the danger of it. and, if i got j-hooked doing it, i would consider it partially my fault (and partially the car's fault for the reasons you mentioned) regardless of what the law says. (i'm 99.9% certain that in PA it is illegal, but i could be wrong.)

and i certainly do not feel i am somehow entitled to do it (or anything else) just because i ride a motorcycle. (if the traffic engineers actually intended to allow right turners to slip past, they would have marked a right turn lane.)
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Old 10-23-2013, 03:24 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
regardless of who is legally at fault, getting j-hooked by a car while on a bike can turn out badly for us. it's just something to think about.

i do it at times, too, but i don't kid myself about the danger of it. and, if i got j-hooked doing it, i would consider it partially my fault (and partially the car's fault for the reasons you mentioned) regardless of what the law says. (i'm pretty sure in PA it is illegal to pass on the right, but i could be wrong.)

and i certainly do not feel i am somehow entitled to do it (or anything else) just because i ride a motorcycle. (if the traffic engineers actually intended to allow right turners to slip past, they would have marked a right turn lane.)
Not really. "Traffic imagineers" often don't mark jack.

In some states, it is spelled out in the MVC that there has to be a minimum space between the car waiting to turn left and the edge of the pavement, in order to make a legal pass. In many states, this minimum is 8'. In many other states, the pass may be illegal.

Turn signals may or may not be legal for use in FL. I believe that it's at least considered a personal insult to all other road users around you if you signal a lane change or a turn here. You deny others the pleasure of surprises and excitement in their lives, and this just won't be tolerated.
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:23 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
regardless of who is legally at fault, getting j-hooked by a car while on a bike can turn out badly for us. it's just something to think about.

i do it at times, too, but i don't kid myself about the danger of it. and, if i got j-hooked doing it, i would consider it partially my fault (and partially the car's fault for the reasons you mentioned) regardless of what the law says. (i'm 99.9% certain that in PA it is illegal, but i could be wrong.)

and i certainly do not feel i am somehow entitled to do it (or anything else) just because i ride a motorcycle. (if the traffic engineers actually intended to allow right turners to slip past, they would have marked a right turn lane.)
Yeah. I don't do it if I have any suspicion that someone might turn in front of me--normally the light is red and I can get to the stop line and make my turn on the red before the light turns green.

But I do feel I'm entitled to do it because I fit. On streets big enough for traffic lights, parking is banned within X feet of the intersection for a reason--so that cars can slip through (and for visibility, of course). A semi doesn't fit through there, so should I also wait in my car because a semi won't fit? Same goes for passing a left turner on the right on a rural road, which is explicitly legal in most states provided you fit without leaving the pavement. Should I wait if there's not room for a car even if there's room for my motorcycle?

Every vehicle has its advantages and disadvantages. One of the motorcycle's advantages is that it's small and will fit through gaps in traffic that other vehicles won't. A pickup doesn't fit, but have you ever tried hauling a stove on a motorcycle?
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:35 PM   #71
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Yeah. I don't do it if I have any suspicion that someone might turn in front of me--normally the light is red and I can get to the stop line and make my turn on the red before the light turns green.

But I do feel I'm entitled to do it because I fit. On streets big enough for traffic lights, parking is banned within X feet of the intersection for a reason--so that cars can slip through (and for visibility, of course). A semi doesn't fit through there, so should I also wait in my car because a semi won't fit? Same goes for passing a left turner on the right on a rural road, which is explicitly legal in most states provided you fit without leaving the pavement. Should I wait if there's not room for a car even if there's room for my motorcycle?

Every vehicle has its advantages and disadvantages. One of the motorcycle's advantages is that it's small and will fit through gaps in traffic that other vehicles won't. A pickup doesn't fit, but have you ever tried hauling a stove on a motorcycle?
in mn. it is specifically Illegal unless there is a bypass lane specifiably marked as such. it is also specifiably illegal to use a right turn lane to pass a left turning car and not turn right.
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:40 PM   #72
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I'll make a counter argument that I hate it when there are two or three lanes of traffic, and a guy going straight will pull into the right lane right before a light and stop.

And they always pull ALL THE WAY right for some reason. If I'm going straight I try to stay left or pull up, and on the bike I'll even motion for a right turner to split the lane with me if they want, but they very rarely do.
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:51 PM   #73
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in mn. it is specifically Illegal unless there is a bypass lane specifiably marked as such. it is also specifiably illegal to use a right turn lane to pass a left turning car and not turn right.
It's probably illegal everywhere, but it's done everywhere and I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket for it.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:11 AM   #74
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If a bike can fit, there should be a turn lane the width of a bike (but that doesn't even exist). Roads aren't designed for us.

The real thing to watch for is a gap between the car that you are overtaking and the car in front, no gap and they won't move to go round, if there is a gap then there is more risk. Its hardly the most dangerous thing you can do on a bike though, the worst that will happen is you bail onto the footpath.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:36 PM   #75
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in mn. it is specifically Illegal unless there is a bypass lane specifiably marked as such. it is also specifiably illegal to use a right turn lane to pass a left turning car and not turn right.
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It's probably illegal everywhere, but it's done everywhere and I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket for it.
It used to be illegal in Wisconsin as well, but the law now says that you can pass a left-turning car as long as you don't leave the pavement. That's always been the law in most of the West.

As for using a right turn lane for anything other than turning right, yeah, that's illegal everywhere if it's marked for a right turn. A lot of rural intersections will have an ambiguous bypass lane that can be used either to turn right or to go around a left turner. As long as there are no lane-use markings, both maneuvers are legal. Wisconsin has tons of these where state highways or county trunk roads meet smaller roads. None of them have lane-use markings.
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