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Old 10-23-2013, 11:02 PM   #196
windmill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joexr View Post
Do you have self control or little abilty.
Mostly self control.............but I'll admit I suck at wheelies.

Self control is having the judgment to ride within your abilities and enviroment so you don't loose control and do something unintended.
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:02 AM   #197
MotoTex
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Originally Posted by SgtDuster View Post
Still, prima facie doesn't mean "no speed limits" like you said but like I said:

You are AUTOMATICALLY guilty if a cop catch you doing over the speed limit. He don't have to bring it to court, you are AUTOMATICALLY guilty and cited. But if you think that you're not guilty according to the situation and conditions, the burden of proof is on YOU.
I thought you were done ...

Here in the USA the constitution provides that a person isn't guilty until they have had a trial (or have admitted guilt themselves).

When the cop cites a driver this is a record of their determining that the vehicle was traveling at the stated speed. Nothing more, nothing less. It is an accusation supported by tenuous evidence. There is no aspect of this which requires a plea or a judgement in regard to the interaction with the cop. There is a little thing called Due Process which shall not be denied the accused ...

However, as you say, if the driver feels guilty and has a desire to be punished which outweighs any desire they might have to prove innocence, then, it is within their right to consider themselves guilty at that point. This may be an indication of Masochistic tendencies, or, merely a knee-jerk response to what they consider a higher power. (maybe there is no difference between those)

So, you aren't wrong, per se, as you have the unalienable right to declare yourself guilty. Heck, you can do that even before the cop cites you. But this choice on your part is really more about personal preference than it is about law.

A successful Prima Facie defense is "rare," yet is not impossible. Mostly because the method to achieve it is rather convoluted when attempted by a person acting on emotion rather than coming armed with knowledge and fact. Most fail. A few succeed. This is how rare is defined. You get what you inspect, not what you expect. Most people expect the members of the court to feel sorry for them, or to cut them some slack, and because of this they present a flawed argument against the prima facie evidence. Nuff said.
.
.

I hearby dub thee

"SgtDuster The Guilty"


may all posterity recognize you by this lofty title

Go forth, Sir Knight, spreading your guilt far and wide across the great land. As is your want to exercise your right and obligation by circumventing due process, thus saving the courts countless time. Thereby relieving the clerk, prosecutor and judge of the burden of their vaulted positions while freeing up the docket for ner-do-wells to fight the good fight for personal freedom, liberty, and preservation of the rights of their fellowmen.

May your slide down the slippery slope be a comfortable one.

Huzzah!
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MotoTex screwed with this post 10-24-2013 at 07:44 AM
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:15 AM   #198
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Why can't a the citing officer issue and affidavit saying that your speed was not reasonable and prudent to counter your affidavit? The officer could be considered an expert in the matter so that would be evidence to contradict your evidence.
What about legal proceedings where it is "The People Vs. Sgt. Duster", aren't the The People a person?
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:20 AM   #199
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I think that what MotoTex is trying to say is that he's challenging the legal enforceability of the posted speed limit rather than the fact that he may have been exceeding that posted speed limit.
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:42 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Handy View Post
Why can't a the citing officer issue and affidavit saying that your speed was not reasonable and prudent to counter your affidavit? The officer could be considered an expert in the matter so that would be evidence to contradict your evidence.
What about legal proceedings where it is "The People Vs. Sgt. Duster", aren't the The People a person?
That is a good question. In my opinion, if the case were brought in the officer's name, as the injured party, this might be possible. But only if he had supporting evidence to clearly show his claim was valid. Video showing poor control of the vehicle, witnesses to dangerous or reckless driving, that sort of thing.

I think he would have to show in what way the speed was unreasonable or imprudent. This would require sworn testimony to some specific act committed by the driver to illustrate how the speed would meet this claim.

If the driver had no altercation with another road user, and the officer had no additional evidence to show how it violated "the peace and dignity of the state," (as the injury was described) I think that a cross examination of the officer could have him confirm this, and would undo any such a claim. Unless he lies while under oath. Then all bets are off.

Personally, I don't think the prosecutor wants the cop in the courtroom if there is any possibility their testimony might jeopardize the outcome.

Frankly, I was quite surprised that the officer wasn't invited to the sandbox on any of my visits. Though the prosecutor was unable to bring the case to trial, so I can see there was no need for the officer until the case reached that point.

Oddly, in the case paperwork the citing officer's name wasn't even on the summons to the County court at all. In fact, some officer (perhaps a supervisor) whom I had no interaction with had their name on the summons as the citing officer. I thought it was kinda weird, but had a few other volleys to throw across the net before needing to address this distraction.

As to the question of "The People" let's try to define this.
Is "The People" a singular flesh and blood person?
Are "The People" a registered corporation or association?
If not, then "The People" are not a "person" in the legal sense.
As with "The State of ..." they might be described as a "body politic" which wouldn't pass the test of being a legal person.

In your example, Sir SgtDuster the Guilty would be a member of "The People" as well as being the accused. (except in this instance the accused would have already admitted guilt and not appealed to a court of record to deny the existence of the plaintiff)
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MotoTex screwed with this post 10-24-2013 at 10:10 AM
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:12 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by windmill View Post
Mostly self control.............but I'll admit I suck at wheelies.

Self control is having the judgment to ride within your abilities and enviroment so you don't loose control and do something unintended.
You'll never know your abilities if you've never found the edge.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:24 PM   #202
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You'll never know your abilities if you've never found the edge.
Yup, that's why I've done track days and riding courses.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:33 PM   #203
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Yup, that's why I've done track days and riding courses.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:32 PM   #204
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MotoTex's point of view reminds me of the people who fervently believe that paying federal income tax is voluntary.
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Old 10-26-2013, 05:08 PM   #205
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MotoTex's point of view reminds me of the people who fervently believe that paying federal income tax is voluntary.
First off, what does this have to do with those guys cited in Canada on their bikes? (just thought I'd say it before someone else does)

As for my point of view, I haven't studied the code enough to say one way or the other. Seems like most who take it on don't do well.

Personally, I think that it likely isn't what the founders had in mind. And there is an amendment to the constitution supporting it. Hard to argue with that.

But, there also is the fact that Federal Reserve and the I.R.S. were created essentially at the same time and are both privately run. They are joined at the hip. There is a reason.

One puts money into circulation. The other sucks it out of circulation.

Running it this way helps disguise some of the effects of rampant money creation occurring at a rate that exceeds the expansion of new goods and services.

That's how it seems to work to me anyway. Over my life I've seen the costs of things consistently rise, this means more money has been put in the supply than new stuff has. The result of this is that as the market balances things over time there are rising prices across the board. For example, it takes $100 to buy today what it took $20 to buy in 1975. The supply has expanded four times faster than actual goods and services were able to grow.

The IRS provides a service. Without the IRS, we might experience inflation like Zimbabwe, or Mexico, or any of a number of other nations, all of which this has happened to all the way back to the creation of paper money in China many centuries (millennia?) ago.

This is how the system was designed. Read about Beardsley Ruml who introduced the concept of tax withholding by the employer in the 1940's. He is quoted a number of times being pretty straight-forward about taxes being used for social control and no longer necessary for funding government.

History says the Dollar should follow the pattern other countries experimenting in fiat money have, eventually. IRS or not. There are no long lasting examples of a nation using paper money to be found in the past.

Maybe the future will be different.

Ya place your bets. Ya takes ya chances.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:25 PM   #206
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First off, what does this have to do with those guys cited in Canada on their bikes?
Who? You hijacked the thread back on page 2. The original discussion has long since faded into the sunset.

I thought this thread was about you and your legal exploits?
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:58 PM   #207
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Who? You hijacked the thread back on page 2. The original discussion has long since faded into the sunset.

I thought this thread was about you and your legal exploits?
No, you got it all wrong.
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