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Old 11-01-2013, 03:03 PM   #11806
RoninMoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack_mind View Post

This is quite a coincidence: I just came to the thread with the intention of posting my recent experience so others could learn from it. My bike was doing exactly what you describe, and the auto-decompression device was the culprit. In my case, the pivot bolt for the flyweight on the cam drive sprocket backed out, and it was simply not working most of the time. I was really lucky it didn't entirely drop off the sprocket. As it was, the flyweight was out of line, and it's spring had come un-hooked.

I was on a three day trip, and found that if I jump-started the bike off a truck when it was cold in the AM, I could then get it to re-start all day. As soon as I got the chance back at home I took it apart and had a look. The good news is that at least in my case, probably a little locktite is all it's going to take to fix it. Good thing I didn't let it go any longer though . . .

I recommend you take the valve cover off and have a look.
Singletrack, This is the same thing that happened to me. When you get it back together, make sure the weight has not gotten sloppy.. make sure it is not able to put pressure on the shaft that would put pressure on the copper clip. Other wise the clip will fail shortly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack_mind View Post
I am considering removing the airbox and would like to hear pros and cons from people who have actually done this.

The main reason I want to do this is to provide better filtration. No matter what I do, running the stock airbox with a stock paper filter element is allowing too much fine dust into the engine. I have seen my intake valves loose all clearance in 3-4000 miles three times in a row now, and there is far too much visible grit in the intake tract. I have tried sealing the filter onto the airbox with duct tape, and greasing the intake boot, being very sure it is correctly seated on the throttle body each time I replace it. What I intend to do now is eliminate the airbox all together and just run a pod filter.

One request: let's please try to avoid an argument over whether Uni or K&N is the better choice. What I'm really interested in here is if there are problems I will run into. For instance, does the lack of an airbox end up affecting engine performance? Does the ECU have sufficient latitude to provide proper performance if the airflow is less restricted? Is there an airbox pressure sensor that will confuse the ECU if it's just reading ambient conditions w/o an air box?

I am also concerned river crossings will become somewhat more risky . . .

Thanks for your input.
1. Use some sort of sealant around your air filter if you keep your box.
2. With a pod filter you will need to remap richer. You will get more hp but your mileage will suffer. Mine fuel economy suffered about 10 to 15% with this mod and remap so I went back to stock so I could run her leaner again.
3. The pressure sensor is actually a temp probe I believe. There doesn't seem to be any issues running it out side of the air box.
4. You loose a lot of clearance for water crossings. With the stock air box, your intake is just under seat height. With a pod filter your intake is about the height of the top of the front tire.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:29 PM   #11807
rickypanecatyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninMoto View Post
I think the new one plugs in and its an upgrade.
Hey Ronin - I noticed the '12 look like the 08's. Are you sure it's a different part and not just the same? If it works I really like it? I know this sounds goofy, but I ride a lot, alone at night and cool gauges make me feel.... not so alone!
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Old 11-01-2013, 04:05 PM   #11808
Uller
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So, I'm trying to find my post on the airbox mod (Thanks Ged! ) and I came across this. Maybe Pate was on to the broken bolts back in mid 2012. KTMmitch, do you think it would be good to incorporate something like this into the new linkage build?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pate View Post
The part 7 isn't fixed in the frame, it moves and knocks.
It was finished and rigidly established on additional rings:





Quote:
Originally Posted by Brute View Post
Was this the original pin machined or a complete new one ? Did you make any spares ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pate View Post
Yes, the original pin was remachined.
No, I ordered this work.
I did only the drawing.

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Old 11-01-2013, 04:35 PM   #11809
.chris
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Location: Auckland, NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack_mind View Post

This is quite a coincidence: I just came to the thread with the intention of posting my recent experience so others could learn from it. My bike was doing exactly what you describe, and the auto-decompression device was the culprit. In my case, the pivot bolt for the flyweight on the cam drive sprocket backed out, and it was simply not working most of the time. I was really lucky it didn't entirely drop off the sprocket. As it was, the flyweight was out of line, and it's spring had come un-hooked.

I was on a three day trip, and found that if I jump-started the bike off a truck when it was cold in the AM, I could then get it to re-start all day. As soon as I got the chance back at home I took it apart and had a look. The good news is that at least in my case, probably a little locktite is all it's going to take to fix it. Good thing I didn't let it go any longer though . . .

I recommend you take the valve cover off and have a look.
Just whipped the rocker cover off and it appears everything is still there (phew).
But the decompression shaft did side out as I took the cover off (possibly because the bike is on its side-stand. Would that be normal?
I also notice the cam chain is SUPER tight, eg you can barely move it all. Is that how it should be?

EDIT: just re-assembled it and tried to start with out the spark plug in (easy decompression check) and it ticks over ok now.
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Old 11-01-2013, 04:45 PM   #11810
Uller
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Found it. That took a while. I've had my 690 like this for the last two summers and now have over 4,000 mi. with it like this. The airbox does not move around at all and everything has been perfect IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uller View Post
I'm sure I'll miss something so let me know if you have any questions.

First off, I haven't ridden the bike like this yet. So, I don't know how it will "ride" yet. If I have too much movement, I can just tighten down the front screws like normal but, I now get to pre insert the front screws first so i don't have to worry about cross threading or dropping them (I've experienced both many times).

Second, I have removed all sas and cannister stuff plus I have relocated my Rectifier/regulator and removed the plastic side panels you normally have on the bike. Things will look a little different with my bike in the pictures below. Don't worry, this shouldn't make this any different for your bike. Even with the stock side panels. Also, I use the Safari tank always and don't need the side panel mounts so those are gone too.

Third, I have now decided that what I have come up with (or at least a version of it) is how the air box should have been made like to begin with. It would have been soooo simple for KTM to put a cradle/stud at the front of the air box to allow the air box to be mounted in this method in the first place with all of their resources. Oh well....

Fourth, I just did this. I'm sure that I will in some way change it slightly from what it is now. This is an adventure.
--------------------------------------
My bike as it started, I needed to clean the radiator so I already had it off. It very much helped that it was out for access in cutting.



I used the outlets from the stock vent hose collector box that is at the front right of the bike along with a piece of one of the valves from the sas system to make a modified, small collector. I used to run this directly into the airbox but, for ease of removal I decided to vent it seperatley and used a small K&N Vent element and some extra rubber for a correct fit (I had just installed this as a breather on my 950 AdvS and had to steal it for the 690 and and order another)














Here it is mounted to the frame out of the way, high up, and easily made to work with the stock hoses trimmed down. Only parts to purchase are the rubber hose clamp and the breather element. Under $20. http://store.knfilters.com/vent.htm The vent in the pic is 62-1560. A smaller size would work better though so you don't need the second hose in the pic above to make it work.







The idea is that the only connection to the air box is the throttle body and the air sensor. Accessed from below and once the box is slightly lifted, respectively. I would permanently mount the front screws just far out enough to snugly hold the front of the air box in place. It already is rather tight just with the rubber mounts alone. The screws will just ensure any movement will be very slight. I used red thread lockers to hold the screws in place.

These tabs welded in the frame are very strong. So strong the Evo 2 kit from KTM relocates a battery box up front and holds it with these tabs. By cutting them as I have I only slightly have cromprimised their strenght and we only need to hold up the air box here. I tried to get the slot just in the middle so I still had a little above and below for the screw to grab to. I also flared the entry for the screws slightly to make install of the air box easier.













All fabbed up and test fitting, It works. Well. The first time. I'm stoked







Ok, to seal up the vent hose opening in the air box I use this and a piece of cut up plastic. The old vent box you cut up will work well.



Coat both sides, the air box and the plastic, let sit for thirty seconds



I then put a bead around the outside and wait for it to set up. Then on the inside of the air box I fill only the recessed area from the hole that was in the airbox. I am very careful about this and don't get thin pieces of sealant around the edge as I don't want those little bits to fall out and go into the motor. If you fill the recessed area only it will be thick and durable and will last well. Sorry, no pics of inside of airbox.



I then finish sanded the tabs and used a black combo primer paint on the raw ends of the tabs. I sprayed a q-tip and wiped it on the tabs to avoid masking/paper on the bike.



To mount the air box with the safari tank on it is a little tight to get to the rear air box screws. I did install/uninstall them with an 8mm spanner quite easily without dropping a single screw. I have already come up with a change though.



You can remove the rubber mounting bungs from the airbox. I am thinking of removing the rear ones and using a couple of permenantly mounted angles, one with a captured nut on the frame side, and another angle mounted on the air box. You could then screw straight down through the airbox mounted tab to the frame mounted one and then into the captured nut to mount the rear of the box and not have to fumble as much with the screws. With this change I would think that you could get to the injector/filter in under three minutes from seat off. Try that with a stock bike.

***Disclaimer - I haven't ridden the bike like this yet. It might just rattle around and cause damage and I'll have to resort to the old method of removing the tank to tighten up the front bolts.***
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:16 PM   #11811
Roostre
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Footpegs

I have ran the CJdesigns for a few years. Its like having power steering!


http://www.cjdesignsllc.com/products...peg-extension/
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #11812
rdkyote
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Anybody up for renting their KTM cable so I can remap. I have a 2012 with the akra can and am too lazy to take it down to the dealer. Or.... if you're in n. colorado and are competent enough to remap my bike for a case of beer let me know.
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Old 11-01-2013, 06:32 PM   #11813
DirtJack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night Falcon View Post
I am looking at replacing my already replaced speedo (under warranty) on my 09 as the digital display is failing. Been looking at theses : http://www.trailtech.net/digital-gauges/vapor They don't have one listed to fit the 690 but I emailed Trailtech and they said they could probably get one to fit. I wanted one with a rev counter which the enduro type ones don't have. Not sure how the fault codes work though....more investigation needed.
Here's how to do the Vapor installation Maurizio's way He used a Vector, but the installation would be virtually the same except for the tach input which is easy to do.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:56 PM   #11814
Night Falcon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtJack View Post
Here's how to do the Vapor installation Maurizio's way He used a Vector, but the installation would be virtually the same except for the tach input which is easy to do.
Cheers DJ
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:31 PM   #11815
RoninMoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .chris View Post
Just whipped the rocker cover off and it appears everything is still there (phew).
But the decompression shaft did side out as I took the cover off (possibly because the bike is on its side-stand. Would that be normal?
No, this is not normal. The shaft should not slide out.. it should be held in place by the copper clip. If it slides out, it won't engage.. making it nearly impossible for the starter motor to turn your bike over.




You need to slide the cam out like you would if you were changing your valve shims in order to get at the copper clip. Hopefully it will still be on the top of your motor somewhere. When this happened to me, the clip stayed on the shaft but was pushed toward the lobe of the cam shaft. So it was not doing its job retaining the shaft, but it did not fall in the engine.


You can see where the shaft contacted my valve cover.


The worn out clip. Luckily it stayed on the shaft.

I would recommend replacing the weight, spring, screw and clip. They are cheap parts and it will hopefully save this from happening again. Any slop in the weight will eat through the clip.
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:14 AM   #11816
.chris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoninMoto View Post
No, this is not normal. The shaft should not slide out.. it should be held in place by the copper clip. If it slides out, it won't engage.. making it nearly impossible for the starter motor to turn your bike over.




You need to slide the cam out like you would if you were changing your valve shims in order to get at the copper clip. Hopefully it will still be on the top of your motor somewhere. When this happened to me, the clip stayed on the shaft but was pushed toward the lobe of the cam shaft. So it was not doing its job retaining the shaft, but it did not fall in the engine.


You can see where the shaft contacted my valve cover.

The worn out clip. Luckily it stayed on the shaft.

I would recommend replacing the weight, spring, screw and clip. They are cheap parts and it will hopefully save this from happening again. Any slop in the weight will eat through the clip.
Thanks, I think that is EXACTLY the problem, I will have a search for that pin tomorrow. And will order the replacements on Monday.
My rocker cover has the exact same marks on it.
EDIT: Found the clip, and promptly dropped it onto my messy floor and lost it, but one side of the clip was visibly worn.

Thanks everyone for your assistance.
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Old 11-02-2013, 05:39 AM   #11817
sprouty115
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So Chris had this issue with 65,000 Km. Noah, do remember the approximate mileage when you had the problem? just curious if it was around the same time.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:36 AM   #11818
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I just ordered some decompression parts. Not that expensive and good to have spares around just in case.

Uller, your airbox mods are nice. I have not done those, but I just left the front bolts off. So the airbox is secured by the two back bolts and the rubber boot connecting to the throttle body. So far so good after two years.

I am also running the RR EVO2 tanks so a different setup to yours. The RR tank kit comes with a small plastic vent box that fits into the right side of the frame. So the airbox still vents to that box. Also I made a SAS blockoff plate for the valve cover but kept the vent open and also routed that hose to the vent box.
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Old 11-02-2013, 08:45 AM   #11819
dad2bike
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Uller-
I have the same safari tank setup. I was considering doing your airbox mod.
What are the major benefits to that? Is it just for quick access to the injector?
Can you now do a valve check with the tank on?
I figure after all the work of pulling the Safari tank, a few more bolts isn't much more.

Also- Did you ditch all the plastic covers and just move the stock regulator to the left side?
I was considering a little clean up of all that plastic as well.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:09 AM   #11820
Katoom72
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Originally Posted by sprouty115 View Post
So Chris had this issue with 65,000 Km. Noah, do remember the approximate mileage when you had the problem? just curious if it was around the same time.
Think im gonna replace the clip every valve check. New copper clip every 10k ain't costly, it's a rather cheap but safe thing to do.
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