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Old 11-06-2013, 10:36 AM   #4126
kaptinkaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycan1 View Post
I am taking my shock in to him for a rebuild, since it is leaking. Sounds like he knows his stuff.
Just a heads up Lycan... http://cornergrass.com/CGRTsuspension/

Talk to Lee. He did my suspension on the 450 and will do my stretch on the 990 this winter. He knows his stuff and worked magic on my 450. I absolutely love it now and hated how stiff Pro-Action had it. Like night and day really.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:59 AM   #4127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptinkaos View Post
Just a heads up Lycan... http://cornergrass.com/CGRTsuspension/

Talk to Lee. He did my suspension on the 450 and will do my stretch on the 990 this winter. He knows his stuff and worked magic on my 450. I absolutely love it now and hated how stiff Pro-Action had it. Like night and day really.
What is the "stretch" worth. You are talking about going to the R-model height I'm guessing. I have been thinking about doing that to and know what it costs for Super Plush to do it.
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:34 PM   #4128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptinkaos View Post
Just a heads up Lycan... http://cornergrass.com/CGRTsuspension/

Talk to Lee. He did my suspension on the 450 and will do my stretch on the 990 this winter. He knows his stuff and worked magic on my 450. I absolutely love it now and hated how stiff Pro-Action had it. Like night and day really.

Suspension is very rider opinion dependant.

Everybody likes something different. Often what some people think is firm/harsh works better for faster riders, where the soft suspension holds back faster riders, etc.

Pro Action did my dirt bike, and although I've adjusted it A LOT from where it was handed over, I have found a sweet spot where it's firm and responsive, yet absorbs what it should. It's reactive without being harsh, playful without being a worn out couch. I just have some fine tuning with shock preload as it likes to wheelie too much in hill climbs and out of corners when sitting.

On my XRR, I did the work myself but being that I use it for dual sporting mostly, it's set-up softer. It rails rock sections and river rock amazingly well, but it falls off with missing responsiveness and slower reactions. I wanted it to absorb washboard and potholes without losing fillings.

Everything has a purpose. I'd ask WHAT you want, and then see what the modifier provides, or willing to provide. What some say is great, others find issues.

What I do believe is lighter fluid is better. It changes viscosity less with temperature. Plenty of people wouldn't notice this. I feel it a lot on my dirt bike, but much, much less on my XRR, which runs 2.5w oil.

Look at viscosity charts and you'll see that thicker oil all tapers off much, much closer to the thinner oil's original and final ratings.
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:12 PM   #4129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycan1 View Post
What is the "stretch" worth. You are talking about going to the R-model height I'm guessing. I have been thinking about doing that to and know what it costs for Super Plush to do it.
Just got a quote from Konflict in the states a couple of weeks ago to stretch to 300mm front and back. All in $1500. Gonna pull the trigger and ship it off while I'm on vacation overseas in February. He does a tonne of 950/990's for racers. Once it's set up, I'll get service done more locally, but I'm not sure there's a shop nearby with enough experience with the 990's suspension(especially one that actually gets used aggressively and off highway) to spend over a grand and HOPE it's how I want it. I know a few people in BC and the US who swear by him for their 950/990 suspensions.
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:26 PM   #4130
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shipping to Africa

Does anybody have some info on shipping a bike to Africa? I'm looking at a job in Zambia and would love to take th XR.
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Old 11-06-2013, 01:39 PM   #4131
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http://www.smellybiker.com/ will give you a quote for sea freight!
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:57 AM   #4132
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I relocated to North Africa (Tunisia) 4 years ago for work from Calgary and brought my 990 Adventure with me.

For the entire relocation I used MI Group and they were fantastic. I dropped the 990 off at their base in the NE and they built an extremely robust crate around it and had it put into a container with the rest of the stuff being shipped.

Great company to deal with. I think my total relocation (pack, move, unpack) was about $7-8k including sea freight for the bike. This was a corporate thing that i didn't pay for.

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Does anybody have some info on shipping a bike to Africa? I'm looking at a job in Zambia and would love to take th XR.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:33 AM   #4133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycan1 View Post
What is the "stretch" worth. You are talking about going to the R-model height I'm guessing. I have been thinking about doing that to and know what it costs for Super Plush to do it.
I mean "S" height actually. 265mm. I've also been eyeballing the new Ohlins setup at 277mm... :) It's $1500-2000 no matter which way you go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby! View Post
Suspension is very rider opinion dependant.

Everybody likes something different. Often what some people think is firm/harsh works better for faster riders, where the soft suspension holds back faster riders, etc.

Pro Action did my dirt bike, and although I've adjusted it A LOT from where it was handed over, I have found a sweet spot where it's firm and responsive, yet absorbs what it should. It's reactive without being harsh, playful without being a worn out couch. I just have some fine tuning with shock preload as it likes to wheelie too much in hill climbs and out of corners when sitting.

On my XRR, I did the work myself but being that I use it for dual sporting mostly, it's set-up softer. It rails rock sections and river rock amazingly well, but it falls off with missing responsiveness and slower reactions. I wanted it to absorb washboard and potholes without losing fillings.

Everything has a purpose. I'd ask WHAT you want, and then see what the modifier provides, or willing to provide. What some say is great, others find issues.

What I do believe is lighter fluid is better. It changes viscosity less with temperature. Plenty of people wouldn't notice this. I feel it a lot on my dirt bike, but much, much less on my XRR, which runs 2.5w oil.

Look at viscosity charts and you'll see that thicker oil all tapers off much, much closer to the thinner oil's original and final ratings.
Yes, suspension IS very rider dependent, but I do know that Pro-Action specializes in MX setups where as most of us are looking for a more plush, dual-sporty ride that is less like riding two pogo sticks in the woods... lol! The valving Pro-Action uses is VERY restrictive compared to Super Plush or CGRT's. I'm just weighing in with my first hand knowledge of both suspensions and how they worked for my riding. I'm not Mark Coma, but I ain't no slouch and I certainly find the rev limiter when space allows it. The only real drawback I have seen to more plush is the inability to take big hits ie. 20 foot drops at 60mph. I don't take my bike to the track much and prefer the challenge of terrain I don't know and can't control.

Has the suspension worked for me and how I ride? Absolutely. Would I recommend Pro-Action? Yes, but not to someone looking for an enduro setup. If anyone wants to feel what a LOT of plush is like and weighs near what I weight (160-170 without gear) feel free to ride my bike when the roads are dry AFTER I get back from Baja in January, lol!

I disagree on your opinions on fluid though... In a straight shock/non valved system, yes, fluid weight is key to mastering bound, rebound and damping. In valved systems shimmed and sprung for a specific weight oil weight is pretty much set in stone. To vary parameters I would try 5ml more or less than the amount in the shock before I changed the weight of the oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beema Killa View Post
Just got a quote from Konflict in the states a couple of weeks ago to stretch to 300mm front and back. All in $1500. Gonna pull the trigger and ship it off while I'm on vacation overseas in February. He does a tonne of 950/990's for racers. Once it's set up, I'll get service done more locally, but I'm not sure there's a shop nearby with enough experience with the 990's suspension(especially one that actually gets used aggressively and off highway) to spend over a grand and HOPE it's how I want it. I know a few people in BC and the US who swear by him for their 950/990 suspensions.
Be careful about too much travel man. 300mm is a lot for those WP's. I've done a lot of research into that and without completely new tubes that are longer (not just the shafts) you won't have very much overlap on the bushing when it's at full stroke. That means that there's a chance the shock could buckle when taking a big hit from full extension. Ohlins is 277mm and I believe R is 245 and S is 265mm. Any of those is plenty unless you're planning to take it to Dakar and have $500k in sponsoring behind you, lol! My choices for the stretch would be CGRT or SuperPlush. I think I'm going to get Lee to do mine to "S" @ 265mm cause he's local, a very good dude, still actually races enduro and did a fantastic job on my 450's WP's.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:41 AM   #4134
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Let us know how it works out. I'm going to be re-valving my 690 next season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beema Killa View Post
Just got a quote from Konflict in the states a couple of weeks ago to stretch to 300mm front and back. All in $1500. Gonna pull the trigger and ship it off while I'm on vacation overseas in February. He does a tonne of 950/990's for racers. Once it's set up, I'll get service done more locally, but I'm not sure there's a shop nearby with enough experience with the 990's suspension(especially one that actually gets used aggressively and off highway) to spend over a grand and HOPE it's how I want it. I know a few people in BC and the US who swear by him for their 950/990 suspensions.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:22 PM   #4135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaptinkaos View Post

Yes, suspension IS very rider dependent, but I do know that Pro-Action specializes in MX setups where as most of us are looking for a more plush, dual-sporty ride that is less like riding two pogo sticks in the woods... lol! The valving Pro-Action uses is VERY restrictive compared to Super Plush or CGRT's. I'm just weighing in with my first hand knowledge of both suspensions and how they worked for my riding. I'm not Mark Coma, but I ain't no slouch and I certainly find the rev limiter when space allows it. The only real drawback I have seen to more plush is the inability to take big hits ie. 20 foot drops at 60mph. I don't take my bike to the track much and prefer the challenge of terrain I don't know and can't control.

Has the suspension worked for me and how I ride? Absolutely. Would I recommend Pro-Action? Yes, but not to someone looking for an enduro setup. If anyone wants to feel what a LOT of plush is like and weighs near what I weight (160-170 without gear) feel free to ride my bike when the roads are dry AFTER I get back from Baja in January, lol!

I disagree on your opinions on fluid though... In a straight shock/non valved system, yes, fluid weight is key to mastering bound, rebound and damping. In valved systems shimmed and sprung for a specific weight oil weight is pretty much set in stone. To vary parameters I would try 5ml more or less than the amount in the shock before I changed the weight of the oil.
By dirt bike I meant my bush bike. KTM 250XC. I ride mostly bush here but come spring and fall I do 1-1.5 hour motos at Wild Rose to keep in shape. Fill gas, run till empty. My suspension will do both quite well. As stated I like it on the firm, reactive side. There's so much feedback in suspension I hate to lose that. On my XRR (agressive dual sport), I went softer and it's somewhat "go with the flow" on the single track. Floats over rough stuff, but feeling and responsiveness is definitely lacking. It's a decision on what people want. A sloppy couch is comforting to sit down over the rough stuff, but is sitting what you should, or want to be doing?

How do you raise or lower fluid level in your shock? Did you mean your forks? Shocks have purged air..

Valving is not just that. Set in stone. Viscocity changes. Moreso with thicker fluids. Hence why I said a thin oil keeps more consistant viscosity over temp ranges. I notice all the time when I jump on a bike the suspension isn't nearly as good as after 15min -1/2 hour of hamering on it. Even a trail stop cools the oil enough for me to notice it once we get rolling again. I've learnt to roll into it slowly because of this. Most accidents happen after trail stops. I firmly believe this plays a part, along with being sloppy and having lost flow.

Both shocks and forks have valving... That valving controls the rebound/compression. By changing viscosity in the oil with temperature it changes the valving resistance. When forcing oil through small shim stacks and holes, it gets hot quick.

I can see having a softer, heavier bike would be comforting, but it may not be what everybody wants.
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:21 PM   #4136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby! View Post
By dirt bike I meant my bush bike. KTM 250XC. I ride mostly bush here but come spring and fall I do 1-1.5 hour motos at Wild Rose to keep in shape. Fill gas, run till empty. My suspension will do both quite well. As stated I like it on the firm, reactive side. There's so much feedback in suspension I hate to lose that. On my XRR (agressive dual sport), I went softer and it's somewhat "go with the flow" on the single track. Floats over rough stuff, but feeling and responsiveness is definitely lacking. It's a decision on what people want. A sloppy couch is comforting to sit down over the rough stuff, but is sitting what you should, or want to be doing?

How do you raise or lower fluid level in your shock? Did you mean your forks? Shocks have purged air..

Valving is not just that. Set in stone. Viscocity changes. Moreso with thicker fluids. Hence why I said a thin oil keeps more consistant viscosity over temp ranges. I notice all the time when I jump on a bike the suspension isn't nearly as good as after 15min -1/2 hour of hamering on it. Even a trail stop cools the oil enough for me to notice it once we get rolling again. I've learnt to roll into it slowly because of this. Most accidents happen after trail stops. I firmly believe this plays a part, along with being sloppy and having lost flow.

Both shocks and forks have valving... That valving controls the rebound/compression. By changing viscosity in the oil with temperature it changes the valving resistance. When forcing oil through small shim stacks and holes, it gets hot quick.

I can see having a softer, heavier bike would be comforting, but it may not be what everybody wants.
Without jacking this thread into a suspension argument... I'll restate what you said. It's what the rider prefers. You like it firm. I don't know many people who prefer riding around with their teeth clacking together, nor do I know many pro enduro guys who ride with a stiff setup.

Ask anyone I ride with. I do not sit down when single-tracking or woods riding and not often on faster open stuff unless I'm pounding up a super steep line and need the traction. None of my bikes are sloppy couches or comforting. In fact, I tear my bikes apart and rebuild them into exactly what suits me and my riding. Plush doesn't steal responsiveness and I never told anyone to sit down and ride... I think you're taking what I'm saying about a plush setup completely the wrong way.

Yes, raise and lower the fluid level in your forks. Shock is a different story. You can play with pressure in the rear shock to an extent, but setting your preload correctly and possibly trying a progression spring will do wonders to a mostly stock setup.

To highlight a point you brought up... Yes, oil gets hot when going through small holes. Larger valving helps prevent the oil from getting too hot plus it allows the oil to not shear and break down nearly as fast. This leads to a more consistent feel and a setup that I feel is more suited to non-MX/Enduro riding. A lighter weight oil will shear much faster and break down much faster than a heavier one. ie. 5wt oil will generally take twice as much abuse than 2.5wt. It's why most people run lighter weight oil in vehicles in the winter (5w30 instead of 10w30). The valves in "plush" setups are usually about twice as large as in MX setups and in CGRT's case they are oval also. This allows for a broader range of adjustment for less aggressive situations. Sure, it's not going to work for riding the Dakar most likely, but who rides that hard in Waiporous? McLean? There are no 25ft tabletops out there. No 100mph 2 hour stretches of dunes with boulders. There are no triples and doubles and long fast whoop sections. Maybe your opinion on what enduro/dual sporting is is different from mine, but enjoying the ride is tantamount to being the fastest, most aggressive winner out there for me.

Valving is just that when you're out on a ride. It IS set in stone unless you know of a way to remove your forks, change shims, change valves all while riding? Add to that that the valve orifice won't change unless you increase it or decrease it and yeah, it's pretty stony. A rider needs a baseline before you can tweak. As you stated earlier, with your Pro-Action setup you adjusted it a LOT from where Pro-Action gave it to you. I haven't touched a darn thing on mine after I got the boingers back from Lee at CornerGrass. Put'em on, tighten them up and go. Been charmed with how amazing it is since. Of course, this was sent to him after I had a Pro-Action setup... which I could not find any setting which even came close to what I desired in a suspension. It's just my two cents, but you seem to be shooting down something that is proven to work for someone? SuperPlush uses the same valving as CGRT and so does Konflict. The Ohlins stuff also uses big bore valves to achieve plush without losing too much performance. I'm just saying there's other options out there than Pro-Action... coming from a guy who had a setup done by them. I'm just happy I have finally found a suspension tuner who listened to my needs and fully delivered.
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:40 PM   #4137
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Just one other thing to mention too... Sag is almost as important as having the suspension properly set up. It makes a world of difference!

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Old 11-07-2013, 05:09 PM   #4138
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I agree with the sag. And with more travel comes more sag. I used to race mx and downhill mtb so I am very familiar with suspension set up in long travel applications. I'm of the belief you can never have enough, and the more you have the faster you can go which is what I'm aiming for. As for the tubes, I agree but they have done enough of them for this bike and without issue, that I'm willing to trust it. Hardest part will be getting a side and center stand for her once she's all leggy 'n' shit!
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Old 11-07-2013, 05:17 PM   #4139
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As for Shibby being able to tell the difference in how a bike feels using lighter weight oil (which I agree with so long as it isn't too light) before and after a trail stop, all I can say is wow. I wish I was as acutely attuned to such things as you are. I'd be doing suspension set ups for a living with a team somewhere. I'm not being sarcastic either. That is pretty impressive. I raced until i was 15 and I have been on bikes all my life since I was 4 and I've never developed that kind of feel and I'm 38 now. I know what I like, and it takes awhile to set up any bike I own but nothing on that level.

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Old 11-08-2013, 08:52 AM   #4140
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Trust me. I notice most things people do not and get bothered by small details. People constantly remind me of this. It depends if I am willing to put the cost and effort into fixing them, but I always notice them. Anybody think letting air pressure out of their forks is noticeable? Most think not. I find there is a huge difference once the temp has come up to equalize the pressure to ATM. This has to be done AT operating tempand during the ride to work.

Lets just say we agree to disagree. Everybody should tailer their suspension to how and what they ride. I have both firmer off-road suspension and a plusher set-up. While there is benefit to both, I feel my soft suspension on my XRR reduces its ability in more places then where it gains from being softer. That being said I did a 26,000km trip on it with plenty of very, very bumpy roads and it handled that great and my fillings likely thank me. It's also done many Moab's and Baja's trails, as well as countless mountain passes in our own back yard. If only it was a bit firmer it would be the do-it-all suspension for me.

In regards to oil, I'm not talking about just changing oil. I'm saying using thinner oil and tayloring the shim stack for the lighter oil. It's what I did with my XRR, but my springs are a bit too light, up front for sure, and with load both front and back. If you look at viscocity curves, the thicker oil goes from thick to very thin with a mild temp swing. The thinner oil will change much, much less. Shear as it may, that's a wear property. Not a changing property on every ride.
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