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Old 11-06-2013, 08:38 PM   #16
CC Ryder OP
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Great responses!

Good stuff guys. Thanks one and all here. This is just what I want.. People with experience chiming in, and offering up their opinions and expertise. To respond to a few of the comments and or questions.. A little more about the bike and how its setup.

I measured 9.75" to the bottom of the skid plate where it jogs out near the brake pedal/exhaust.

I do have Fastway ADV pegs and love them.. and that company!

Ground clearance.. I know if I am bottoming the bike, the belly and my feet, hit the ground.. I realize, if the suspension is set up well, that won't happen (hopefully!), but, the clearance issue im talking about is in rock gardens and more technical areas.. coming down very rocky ledges etc.. I've been hung up more than once when my KTM bros have not. I know there are many variables here.. line, speed, suspension, etc, etc.. I haven't measured what the ground clearance is on the 990, but it is visibly higher.. A little more clearance would help.

Wheels? Yeah, mine are not looking so good anymore.

LionBR, asked the question that I was trying to.. If you spend the $$ on wheels and suspension, will the BMW still be inferior as an offroad machine in comparison to the KTM? Thats pretty much the bottom line.

Yes, I agree from what I've seen and read, the BMW will outlive the KTM in motor longevity, and the water pump, fuel pump and other common issues definitely deter me from the KTM.. Damn, its hard to know what to do here. I sway in different directions several times a day!

I read Konflicts thread.. That is awesome what they are doing, definitely worth a few hundred more for the convenience of sending them in and knowing that you will be able to put them back on and have everything right. Im considering looking into the "try before you buy".. but, I don't think I can get a good understanding without doing both front and rear. Tough call here folks!! Im not going to rush into anything, going into winter.. I have time to learn and hopefully make the best decision.

Thanks again for all the input.
Jason
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Old 11-06-2013, 09:18 PM   #17
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Just did some searching..the ground clearance difference is listex at about .7" more for the Katoom.. sure if .5 is the difference between scraping or not..then .7 is the same as a foot..real world..it's not enought to start over with a bike..with a 30k motor in it..

My $.02..worth every dime you paid for it..
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:31 PM   #18
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I just came across this thread, some very valid points getting thrown around. I just wanted to mention that KTM Adventures and Super Enduro's still need a bit of suspension work to be able to handle all the terrain and situations you are mentioning appropriately. Yes the components might be there (adjustable compression and rebound) and having a serviceable rear shock helps in the $$ factor but they still need proper setup. KTM Adventures come under sprung severely, the new 1190's are similarly sprung as well, and the valving is just as light.
The BMW's have things they excel at better than the KTM's in certain scenarios, and vice versa. The F800GS's previous to 2013 had junk internals, sealed cartridge etc. But in 2013 they did make some serious improvements in the forks, aside from going to the 43mm. The forks can now be modified with a revalve though the cartridge is still lacking in design with such as small cartridge rod, and small cartridge but those can be fixed to a degree with a proper setup.
The main concern with the factory 43mm cartridge is the bottoming circuit is lacking severely. This is why the 2013-2014's are blowing fork oil seals on the showrooms. At the BMW MOA Rally held in Oregon this year I helped 7 guys with 2013 F8's with blown seals, most bikes had less then 1500 miles on them.
I am currently in the R&D stage of a fix for that though, should know in a few weeks.
What I'm trying to say in my opinion is its hard for manufactures to cover such a broad spectrum that covers all situations and riders. It doesn't matter if its KTM, BMW, Kawasaki, or Ducati, everything can benefit from the proper setup.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:07 AM   #19
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It comes down to the $$.. mostly

Thanks for chiming in Alex.. Seems there are many satisfied GS800 owners on here, thanks to you. So, thanks for doing what you are doing. I agree with what you are saying about a "stock" KTM needing work.. Just not nearly as much work. work = $$. It's tough to cough up $2-3K needed to make the suspension suitable for the kind of riding im doing.. Versus, less than half that to setup a KTM. Another factor in spending the money on suspension is, I really wonder what the re-sale gain if any is..? I think in many peoples eyes, it says, "wow, he really beats that thing off road, ill pass on that one".. Which I do. I think a large percentage of BMW buyers are fine with the suspension and most will never do what I'm doing with mine... If I spend the giant $$ to get the suspension right.. Then, the wheels must be dealt with! Paying a lot of money for BMW's short comings. I know there are other trade offs with the KTM.. It is a really tough decision.

As for the ground clearance comparison. Im really surprised to hear.. learn that. However, there are other variables. My buddies bike is a "S" model, has suspension work done already.. rider sag. I'm curious now to measure the two without rider, and report back..
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:27 AM   #20
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How MUCH do you ride..really..I love everything about the KTM 990, looks, performance, sound...however..I ride 20k a year..two years of miles and a KTM is worn out..motor wise. They just don't last in the motor dept..

Cruise thru Orange Crush..yes, people love them...but it's nothing to have the motor out at 30-40,000 miles..Hopefully, for KTM the 1190 changes that.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:28 AM   #21
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KTM 950/990 specs have varied over the years depending on the year and the model. Here are some for a 2013 KTM Adventure R. http://www.2013ktm.com/990AdventureR.html.

The difference in travel compared to F800gs is only 15mm, but ground clearance difference is 2" compared to what you measured unladen.

I think that if you plan to routinely ride your bike at speed over rocky terrain, where two inches of ground clearance is all that important. Buy a different bike.

Can you do it? sure. Touratech and others have built race bikes out of the F800gs. http://www.touratech-usa.com/Adventu...GS-Enduro-Bike Personally I don't think it is all that practical from a financial point of view.

If you are a DIY, strap on some longer forks and a shock. There is enough tube overlap in the Marzocchi forks to use longer travel donor cartridges and springs.

Heavier springs results in less sag. You will gain some ground clearance, just doing that. Did you know a 18" rear rim/tire is taller than the stock rear wheel? I have a reinforced polymer skid plate that is a molded to the contours of the engine that gives me at least a 1/2" more clearance.

It is a combination of things. You seem fixated on suspension and ground clearance. Don't forget that for your money, a KTM provides more HP.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:42 AM   #22
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Cheaper route

I went the economy route and have been more than happy saving some $$$. At 270 with all my riding gear the HD Hyperpro front and rear springs made a huge difference for me. I have the front and rear preload set on the high side and have enough clearance to ride most terrain. It's not adjustable and probably not as nice as the aforementioned set-ups but I can easily ride with most of em. It doesn't ride as harsh as you would think with the springs and preload but I am happy.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:43 AM   #23
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It is the best bang for the buck. I ran Hyperpros front and rear for a year. During that time I experimented with all kinds mods. Longer/shorter/coil spacers. Played with oil weight and air gaps. What Hyperpro recommends is best.

I gave up, but I do a lot of rocky roads and because of the spring improvements I rode them faster.

The OP seems to be hung up on ground clearance. The KTM 990 is a dry sump engine. The BMW is semi dry and does have an oil pan. I bet the KTM engine allows for a skid plate to be mounted higher. Skid plates on the BMW have to accommodate the exhaust.

My problem being old, short legged and crippled was to maintain travel and ground clearance while lowering the seat height.

The current springs raised the bike, I ran the fork tube up a little. I run very little preload. The springs and skid plate I sort of fabricated gets me 10.25" of GC. I probably don't run as fast or as knarly a track as the OP.

Like yours, mine works for me.
I agree it will never be high clearance. My skid plate proves that!
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:53 PM   #24
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clearance clarance

It's not that im hung up on getting more clearance.. I can't be the only one that wishes the F8 had more ground clearance.. It's more that if I spend the $$ on giant suspension upgrades, I'd hate to overlook the possibility of gaining more ground clearance if it was easily doable.. I'm not suspension savvy and am learning here that other than an 18" rear, I am not going to easily gain any inches.. It's not a factor that will dictate weather I keep the bike or not. I've been thinking about going the cheap route.. maybe buy me a year or so. I think the 1190 is my next bike but im always weary of first year models. So, maybe that is what I will do, invest minimal dollars, hope for the best and save for another year and get the second year 1190. Who knows.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:17 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC Ryder View Post
It's not that im hung up on getting more clearance.. I can't be the only one that wishes the F8 had more ground clearance.. It's more that if I spend the $$ on giant suspension upgrades, I'd hate to overlook the possibility of gaining more ground clearance if it was easily doable.. I'm not suspension savvy and am learning here that other than an 18" rear, I am not going to easily gain any inches.. It's not a factor that will dictate weather I keep the bike or not. I've been thinking about going the cheap route.. maybe buy me a year or so. I think the 1190 is my next bike but im always weary of first year models. So, maybe that is what I will do, invest minimal dollars, hope for the best and save for another year and get the second year 1190. Who knows.
Talking about 1190, I would assume you would get the R version.

And a question for others: Are suspensions of the 1190 non-R version, with electronically controlled suspension modes, and BMW's ESA upgradeable?
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:51 AM   #26
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Talking about 1190, I would assume you would get the R version.

And a question for others: Are suspensions of the 1190 non-R version, with electronically controlled suspension modes, and BMW's ESA upgradeable?
The only limits to anyones imagination, is the size of your wallet..

Konflict would have to answer the question as far as "forks" go..but the shocks can be modded by several aftermarket companies..(BMW at least..will take a bit of time for them to catch up to the KTM..)
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VEGASGSA View Post
The only limits to anyones imagination, is the size of your wallet..

Konflict would have to answer the question as far as "forks" go..but the shocks can be modded by several aftermarket companies..(BMW at least..will take a bit of time for them to catch up to the KTM..)
Ive yet to be see the internalls of the 1190 electronically controlled standard, only been in the 1190 R so far. Have springs on order for front and rear at this time.
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:05 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konflict Motorsports View Post
Ive yet to be see the internalls of the 1190 electronically controlled standard, only been in the 1190 R so far. Have springs on order for front and rear at this time.


When I said "they" I meant Aftermarket in general..Sorry, didn't intend to single you out..

Thanks for all your work on these guys!
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:13 PM   #29
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It would seem to me, that too soft springs and excessive sag would cause all the symptoms you list. (bottoming out, not enough clearance)

I went with the Ohlins USA kit, and it helps me. But I'm not going to hang out with my enduro buddy on his 950SE either, I'm not that level of a rider.

David
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