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Old 12-15-2013, 07:48 PM   #1
Reaver OP
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Laugh It's Winter and I'm Shiver-ing!

Alright, it snowed enough this weekend to throw in the riding towel for the year. I'm prepping the bike for a big trip and have just installed a new clutch and the latest design charging system. It's time for the forks. Many of you have asked me to document my project.

I have one season on my Hyperpro progressive springs and I'm very happy with them having travelled NA this fall.....on the pavement. I never got to really test the setup off road but it was a great improvement over stock overall. I'm converting to the Shivers just because I can. I'm not that knowledgeable or experienced in suspension tuning but I am pleasantly unemployed and am about to learn.

I had the chance to buy a set of forks off a BMW G450X that were mint and cheap. The seals and bearings are the same PN as the 800 so I was hoping to use the black 450 stanchions..........we'll see. My bike is a faux Triple Black.


The victim:




Side by side comparison. The 800 upper stanchions and sliders are the longer ones.





The insides of the forks. The 450's the longer one and has the adjustable compression and rebound settings, which is the whole point of the excercise. For the n00bs, the 800 forks are non-adjustable with a sealed cartridge like a car shock. Not rebuildable. One size fits all. The 450's can be rebuilt, revalved and adjusted. So far I have no idea which valving I should use. Yes I'm aware of the AMERICAN suspension shops. The 800 is twice the weight of the 450 WITHOUT bags and gear. One is a race horse while the other is a burro. I'm sure new valves are in order.







Findings so far:

The black stanchions are 1.33" shorter than the 800 stocker. Using just the shorter blacks with the rest being stock gives me the same compressed and extended dimensions as it's the damper that has the stops built in. The difference is that the upper and lower bearings are now 1.33" closer together with 11.25" being the stock extended distance between them. So now they'll be 9.9" apart at full ext. Does that matter???? If I were just playing off road I probably wouldn't worry about it but I'll be fully loaded and far from home. I'm going to check the cost of re-anodizing my golds to black. Peace of mind may be better than ignorant bliss. Maybe.

Hurdles to clear:

Find a shop to machine the lowers to accept the new adjusters.
Make a stop or get a longer topout spring to limit the extended distance by an inch on the new dampers. (1 1/4 really but close enough)
Determine valving requirements.
Determine spring weight required. Racetech.com suggests .8 and up?



EDIT:


Well, I went to Cycle Improvements in Waterloo today to get the legs machined. Not only was the owner, James Hunt, confident in his shop and abilities, he asked me about the valving and my plans for limiting the stroke etc. I was impressed. I said I was only looking for a machine shop at the moment. He was very professional and went on to explain what was needed and that I should have brought the whole thing in. I explained that I’d like to do the revalve myself with a tailored kit and instructions obtainable for about $200 and his face kinda screwed up a bit. He said he’d sell me the shims for $30 and show me how for free. But he said if I wanted to really tune it, the mid-valving would have to be machined....?? Also, I can’t adjust my stroke by installing a longer topout spring because that affects pre-load and..........then I was lost in the techno stuff. The jist of it was that a spacer would be better.

When discussing spring requirements, he calculated about a .52 kg/mm would be good and explained that cutting a stock .46 increases the rate and guestimated it would likely work out correct. The 450 springs are 5/8 shorter than the 800 and the spacer is less than half as thick meaning in order to get the correct preload, I need to cut a few inches off the stockers which is cheaper than a new set.

So, in the end I’m looking at about $200 to get my setup revalved, respringed and setup with the proper preload and stroke (not including machining ~$140?). I wanted to learn all this myself but I can’t argue with experience. James apologized for sounding overly confident but after all, he’s been doing this all his life. His shop is loaded with KTM dirt bikes, Adventures and race bikes. I think I’d rather let him tell me what I need.

I went for machining and found a full service shop. I’ll let you know how it goes!

PS....he also said he can revalve/rebuild the sealed cartridges that come stock in the 800's. Really? I'm going to bring mine in to see if that's true.
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Reaver screwed with this post 12-18-2013 at 06:20 PM
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:14 PM   #2
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You've probably spent more on farkles than you did on the bike. Can't wait to see the results!
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarathmenon View Post
You've probably spent more on farkles than you did on the bike. Can't wait to see the results!
you don't know Reaver. He gets everything for a good price so don't worry about how much he has spend on farkles. Certanly less than most of us.

Well DarRryl now bring it on
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:49 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarathmenon View Post
You've probably spent more on farkles than you did on the bike. Can't wait to see the results!
What Loutre said!

I call it my 50% ride. An '09 bought that winter from BMW as a fixer upper. It was part of the off road test fleet then became a Press bike doing the Demster and Arctic Circle. I got it with 9K kms and full warranty for less than half price. Course it needed some TLC and a hammer. I've rode this bike coast to coast and washed it 5 times since I bought it. That's once a year plus one time after the Turkey incident.

If you know what you want and have the patience to find it you can get your deals. The new vented rotor with a 2012 stator and RR was cheaper than a set of tires. And the stator was still attatched to the engine cover when I got it.

I'm going to continually edit the first post to keep the important info first and the banter last............
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:06 AM   #5
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Re: valving that thang.

Even though I'm 'merican I used Rider's Edge up in B.C. I think "up" to me might be "over" to you.

http://www.ridersedgesuspension.com/

Ian was fun to work with, and spec'ed custom shim stacks/valves for me to DIY install. Didn't need to ship my fork off to someone, and the scenario gave me a better understanding of what is happening inside there when I make the fork go squish.

He built the stacks to work around my .55 Ohlins springs. He was so close, I only needed to add 1 click of compression over his starting suggested settings.
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:16 AM   #6
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That's excellent NCD, thx.

I've been told about Cycle Improvements here and I'm going to give them the machining portion for now. They're just up the road but I'll have to talk to them about valving. I'd love to get the parts in the mail and DIY like you did so I'll give Riders Edge a call.

The only mountains here are the ones I made yesterday shovelling the driveway. It'd be nice to deal with a busy, experienced shop who can set me up. I'm hoping to use my stock springs as I'm under 200 lbs and other than the dive, they seemed OK.
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:34 PM   #7
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Ian at Rider's Edge did my valving too. Used high flow piston but I haven't had it apart to check shims or anything. I went with .6 springs and full travel though. Machining was very easy, just a multi-stepped bore. The innermost step was already machined into the BMW lug (the one the dampening tube sits in).

Afterthought: You'll probably have to preload the crap out of the stock springs to get sag numbers to match the rear, I'm assuming you're using that rear spring I sent?
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:51 PM   #8
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Yeah, your spring still rides out back. I don't even want to think about that part yet.

I've got my original stanchions at the Platers now getting anodized BLACK! I think the cost justifies itself in the Peace of Mind category although the 450's would work I'm sure. Since most MC shops in Canada are closed on Mondays for the winter, I'll take the legs in tomorrow for machining. See how that goes.

Cost-wise, I'm thinking the stock springs are too light and I'm not sure how the progressive Hyperpros would be like but just may go back in. I can always change the springs again at a later date. Once I get all my parts back I'll likely give Riders Edge a call, assuming my local shop can't help. They haven't done a GS before but are a full service machine shop so first things first.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:45 PM   #9
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I have .55 fronts that I ran before the valving was redone, I'm not sure which way I'll end up going. Let me know if you want to try them.

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Old 12-16-2013, 09:33 PM   #10
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Lang's Offroad is out your way too. They are the Enduro Engineering dealers in Canada and do great suspension work too.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:24 PM   #11
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Thanks Cory.

See my EDIT in the first post.
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:39 PM   #12
Bayner
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As per revalving the stock components- I'm curious about that too, especially since there's no valving?

My spring length measurements were as follows:
Stock springs 18.75"
RXV 450 springs from donor forks @ 18.625"
Ohlins .55 @ 18.75
and unfortunately I didn't measure the .6 springs currently in there and can't remember the preload offhand anyways...
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:06 PM   #13
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My G450X springs are 18" so it seems we have different internals going on here. I'll see what I end up with since I'll need to cut the 800's to fit. Cycle Improvements can have custom sets made but I don't know how much.

Are the RXV upper stanchions able to be used in the F8 Bayner?
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:11 PM   #14
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The top ones are my re-anodized 800's. The lower is the 450's stock. I asked for more of a matte finish. They didn't come out perfect because they're well travelled with corrosion and rock dents in them. I hated the gold look previously, mostly because it was the only gold.

They only charged me one Sir Robert Borden. That's two Sir William Lyon MacKenzie Kings if you care.
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Old 12-18-2013, 05:49 PM   #15
Bayner
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Are the RXV upper stanchions able to be used in the F8 Bayner?
The diameters match up but the length is shorter than stock by about 2" if I remember correctly.
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