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Old 09-13-2013, 09:32 AM   #1
duffs OP
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PCN help - any UKers about?

I got done for making a right turn (not following the blue 'ahead' arrows under the traffic lights). The PCN has an incomplete description of the offence (see below).

A little background - I merged onto this road via a side road and was on it for approx 50m. My attention was drawn to about 7 pedestrians on the pavement on the left, several of whom were moving about nearly on the kerb. Obviously I was ensuring no one was about to run out in front of me, and it took 3-4 seconds to reach the intersection. I didn't even see the arrows, I just saw the green light and I turned. I would argue that 3 seconds is insufficient time to process all of the above in this timeframe with the pedestrians considered.

One more detail - there is no fixed CCTV camera at that location. It had to have been one of the Camden's mobile CCTV cars, and indeed a look on google streetview reveals one of their leeches filming while parked on a double line at the same location of my PCN.



Please have a look at the PCN and also my response below it. I would be grateful for any thoughts and/or suggestions.



Letter (not yet sent):


Dear Sir / Madam,

I wish to appeal PCN number CUXXXXXXXX issued by CCTV on the following grounds:

1. Incomplete description of the alleged traffic contravention

The description of the alleged traffic contravention which the Council believes I am liable to pay is incomplete. The PCN states precisely the following:

"The Council believes that a Penalty Charge is payable with respect to the vehicle with the registration number shown above following an alleged traffic contravention:
Failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign (proceeding in the

In GREAT RUSSELL STREET WC1 on 01/09/2013 at 12:22"

I do not believe I should be held accountable to a partial and incomplete allegation - for this reason believe this penalty is unenforceable and kindly request that it is cancelled.

2. Public safety and explicitness of signage

Upon reviewing the video link it is evident that I turned onto Great Russell Street from Dycott Street and was on this road for approximately 50 metres and a total of 3-4 seconds during which time the traffic light changed from red to green. On completing the turn onto Great Russell Street my attention was drawn briefly to the large number of pedestrians on the pavement to the left, some of whom were standing very close to the roadway, and whom I needed to assess for my and their safety to ensure they would not step onto the roadway into my path.

On inspection of the intersection via Google Earth there is indeed an arrow on a blue sign, however I would have reasonably expected at this junction a right arrow with a stroke through it explicitly prohibiting a right turn.

With in mind the very short amount of distance and time spent on Great Russell Street combined with the necessity to ensure my and the public's safety and the lack of a sign explicitly prohibiting right turns I believe there was insufficient time for a person to reasonably process all of the variables involved in this particular instance.

For this reason I kindly request that the PCN is cancelled as a gesture of goodwill.

If you decide to reject my appeal, along with your responses to the two points above, I kindly request the following information under the Freedom of Information Act:

1. The relevant traffic order covering the blue sign noted on the PCN
2. Proof that the camera in use is an approved device
3. A record of the location of the CCTV camera used to record me and, if this was a mobile CCTV unit, evidence that the unit was stopped/parked legally at the time I was recorded
4. The total number of PCNs issued at the location of the alleged traffic contravention between 1 Sep 2012 and 1 Sep 2013
5. The total revenue generated by PCNs issued at the location of the alleged traffic contravention between 1 Sep 2012 and 1 Sep 2013

With kind regards
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:19 PM   #2
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Drop the "gesture of goodwill" line.
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:38 AM   #3
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forget posting on here, your ONLY source for 100% relaible info will be on www.pepipoo.com

register and post over on the council and decrim section.

i had a quick skim read through your "appeal" and you can forget anything that you have requested using FOI - it ont make any difference esp the location of the scamera car, they have dispensation.

go to pepipoo, post up ALL documentation you have front and back - even if you think its just junk.

on the COPIES or SCANS ONLY remove any identifying information - bar codes etc.

ill wait for your posting on pepipoo
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Old 09-14-2013, 04:29 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildman View Post
Drop the "gesture of goodwill" line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluff34567 View Post
forget posting on here, your ONLY source for 100% relaible info will be on www.pepipoo.com

register and post over on the council and decrim section.

i had a quick skim read through your "appeal" and you can forget anything that you have requested using FOI - it ont make any difference esp the location of the scamera car, they have dispensation.

go to pepipoo, post up ALL documentation you have front and back - even if you think its just junk.

on the COPIES or SCANS ONLY remove any identifying information - bar codes etc.

ill wait for your posting on pepipoo
Cheers both for getting back - posted: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=83370
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:00 AM   #5
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im surprised you didnt get more replies TBH...

what happened in the end ?
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:48 PM   #6
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im surprised you didnt get more replies TBH...

what happened in the end ?
Still awaiting the 10 working day reply timeframe... I sent the letter with only point 1 last Thursday - the other poster was correct, everything else is twaddle - the key point is the incomplete description. Fingers crossed! For £60 it's not worth me faffing about with taking it to court so if they are difficult I hope the reduced rate still applies... I believe everything goes on hold when you write in...
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:09 AM   #7
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Ok fingers crossed for you. Expect them to reject it and say it was correctly issued. You can appeal again and also take it to PATAS -no courts involved with council tickets so always appeal them.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duffs View Post

For this reason I kindly request that the PCN is cancelled as a gesture of goodwill.
Incorrect grammar: change 'is' to the subjunctive 'be'.
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Old 09-26-2013, 11:59 PM   #9
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Incorrect grammar: change 'is' to the subjunctive 'be'.
Harsh!

But fair.
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Old 09-27-2013, 03:21 AM   #10
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Oh dear, the shame of it considering my line of work is communications. Fortunately I excluded that section when I wrote to them so they will never know.... NEVER!!!!!

Still waiting to hear back... slow bastards...
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:39 PM   #11
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It’s only been 3 1/2 months but... RESULT. Cancelled PCN. Looks like no one can argue with a partial allegation ;-)

Funny thing is they didn’t even bother to tell me - I happened to check it tonight because I haven’t heard back for so long. Foot in mouth comes to mind.

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Old 12-17-2013, 03:05 AM   #12
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