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Old 12-20-2013, 06:15 PM   #16
foxtrapper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
You trust your friend more than Lance Holst former professional AMA racer, Nicky Hayden/Jason Pridmore manager who also helped set up Kevin Swantz Riding school?

As well as the Service Rep for Pirrelli?

You really want a treat go to a race track sometime, you get to see lots of brand new shiny tires, some with a sticker on.

FYI I hvae a very close friend whom I consider an Amazing Mechanic who perpetuated this myth just like your friend.
New race tires have already been heat cycled and prepped for use. Street tires receive none of this prep work.
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:30 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Foot dragger View Post
I drag my new tires behind my truck on the way home from the shop,then use gradually rougher sandpaper on them,I make the kids sand em for hours. Gotta watch the little shits dont make holes in em.
It cuts down on the life of the tire but I sleep better.
Ok lets say for the sake of argument the new tires need to be scrubbed in.

If so they would need to be heated, once a tire is heated and gets really hot they can actually become greasy and that is when they do get dangerous. Nothing you will encounter on the street, or rather should. However it is something on the track that people need to be concerned about.

Tires also get harder with every heat cycle, those tires which are five years old do not have near the traction of a nice shiny new tire ya'll are afraid of. Yet you would not hesitate to jump on said tire simply because "they are not new"
Sanding your tire even if there was this mythical slickness on the tire would do absolutely nothing.

Learn to ride, quit making excuses, once ya'll learn to trust your tires life becomes much, much better.
Until then your own stiffness and fear will help cause an accident, which is what happens to people who then believe "THE TIRE WAS SLICK" no it was cold, you were stiff, your over reactions translated into the steering geometry making you fall down go boom.

Quote:
New race tires have already been heat cycled and prepped for use. Street tires receive none of this prep work.
I brought this up at Lances advanced riding clinic, he shooed it off. I have no reason to believe otherwise and combined with his massive experience not only with himself, but with some of the top riders in America and the world, I will take his advice any day of the week.
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:31 PM   #18
MT Wallet
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Ok Blurr, what got you started on this? If my tire looks and feels slick-I'm scuffing it in, it's mine, why do you care?. Some tire mfg.'s coat their tires, like one poster said, to protect the tire in shipping and while it sits on the shelf. I'm going to speculate that some racers who get their tires provided (hand picked) by a mfg. don't have to worry about protective coatings. They know they're going directly to the track not a dealers shelf. So sure, from their perspective and experience, their tires don't need scuffing in. If you want to jump on the throttle with a new tire-go for it. If you fall down and go boom no crying about it. I'm old. I didn't get that way by being reckless.

MT Wallet screwed with this post 12-20-2013 at 06:37 PM
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:32 PM   #19
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Any time a solid is heated to liquid then allowed to cool and return to solid form there is a resulting crust or skin that forms on the surface. .
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:38 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by soggysandwich View Post
To..The Blurr......
you ride an old klr650....what the fuck do you know about how new sportbike tires feel after they are just mounted and balanced?
NOTHING !

the first few miles always feel like riding on marbles or ice,,especially if you ride on hilly/curving roads....not so much in pool table flat Florida.....

I will continue to listen to my 60 yrs of riding experience [ have my own tire changing machine}...and not some douch bag trying to impress others with shit he read on the internet.

of course at the acceleration and speed that a KLR 650 generates ,,,,, you will have no problem with them dirt tires

Merry Christmas
I am putting this out there so people can start figuring out their own mistakes, rather than placing blame where it is not.
Unless people can look critically at their own mistakes, they cannot improve as a rider.
Your Attitude was predominant within many industries, one for example led to the creation of the FAA and studies to look into what was happening with plane crashes. From those studies we learned that most situations are caused by human error, the same goes for any other mechanical device the vast majority of the time.
I did own a go cart track for a time, and every single time someone ate shit, it was the carts fault, bad tires, it would not steer, or any other bullshit excuse other than their poor skills.
As for me
I have been to a Suspension clinic & Advanced Rider clinic, I would like to take the both over again every couple of years money providing.

Been riding for 37 years now and I KNOW that I will always continue to learn, I am not so arrogant as to assume otherwise, sad you are.

Happy Solstice
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:27 PM   #21
Louis Wambsganss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Wallet View Post
Ok Blurr, what got you started on this? If my tire looks and feels slick-I'm scuffing it in, it's mine, why do you care?. Some tire mfg.'s coat their tires, like one poster said, to protect the tire in shipping and while it sits on the shelf. I'm going to speculate that some racers who get their tires provided (hand picked) by a mfg. don't have to worry about protective coatings. They know they're going directly to the track not a dealers shelf. So sure, from their perspective and experience, their tires don't need scuffing in. If you want to jump on the throttle with a new tire-go for it. If you fall down and go boom no crying about it. I'm old. I didn't get that way by being reckless.
Agreed. Clearly, some of us (myself included) have direct first-person experience with the phenomena that the OP claims does not exist. Maybe it is less common than in the past, but it clearly does exist to some extent. If some of us take care to scuff/clean/abrade a tire before fully stressing it, what's the harm? I don't think anyone is saying "I'm an awesome rider and these darn tires made me crash." We are just saying that it is something that people should be aware of in case it happens to them.
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:42 PM   #22
Louis Wambsganss
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I see what started this now...
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=941981
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:43 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Louis Wambsganss View Post
Agreed. Clearly, some of us (myself included) have direct first-person experience with the phenomena that the OP claims does not exist. Maybe it is less common than in the past, but it clearly does exist to some extent. If some of us take care to scuff/clean/abrade a tire before fully stressing it, what's the harm? I don't think anyone is saying "I'm an awesome rider and these darn tires made me crash." We are just saying that it is something that people should be aware of in case it happens to them.
But its not, more than likely the feeling you are associating with being slick tires are simply going from tires which have less shape to them, your new ones will have more and not that flat spot which you became accustomed to. Trust me, when you put on a new set your bike will turn quicker do to this phenomenon.
Tires with more shape (all tires via different brands, or tread) will have a different handling characteristic, and you should take that into account anytime you start to ride until you are familiar.

But whatever, this entire debate reminds me of religion "Well just in case I will pray" PFFFTTT

People should take a track day, what an eye opener to realize what a crap rider you really are.

Oh and if you really think your slick tires are at fault for making you wreck, do you really think that during varying rode conditions, slick roads, lines, ect that your tires do not lose some grip? Are you afraid then?
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:56 PM   #24
Louis Wambsganss
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Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
But its not, more than likely the feeling you are associating with being slick tires are simply going from tires which have more shape to them, something you lost as your old ones wore in the center.
Tires with more shape (all tires via different brands, or tread) will have a different handling characteristic, and you should take that into account anytime you start to ride until you are familiar.

But whatever, this entire debate reminds me of religion "Well just in case I will pray" PFFFTTT
I don't pray for anything. I'm an Engineer.

Of all the tires I have owned, only these Z8s have caused me any issues. I have even had other Metzelers (ME880s) without any issues.

I have had the rear fishtail on clean concrete on a warm day in a sweeping turn, nowhere near maximum lean or high throttle input, in the middle of a couple-hour-long ride (not cold tires). No sand, oil, or debris on the road. Just extending into the chicken strips further than before on new tires. As can be seen on my previous post with the pic, I was not anywhere near the edge of the tire.

I have not fallen or crashed due to this, just felt the fishing, puckered up for a second, and continued on. I can certainly believe others who have had similar experiences with similar or worse outcomes.
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Old 12-20-2013, 08:19 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Louis Wambsganss View Post
I don't pray for anything. I'm an Engineer.

Of all the tires I have owned, only these Z8s have caused me any issues. I have even had other Metzelers (ME880s) without any issues.

I have had the rear fishtail on clean concrete on a warm day in a sweeping turn, nowhere near maximum lean or high throttle input, in the middle of a couple-hour-long ride (not cold tires). No sand, oil, or debris on the road. Just extending into the chicken strips further than before on new tires. As can be seen on my previous post with the pic, I was not anywhere near the edge of the tire.

I have not fallen or crashed due to this, just felt the fishing, puckered up for a second, and continued on. I can certainly believe others who have had similar experiences with similar or worse outcomes.
Welcome to riding on two wheels vs having four and three others to compensate when one loses traction.

Tires get hot, very hot, the more you ride they will actually "sweat" oil, this is something you will see on track tires where it looks as if the rubber is actually lava and melting.

You as an engineer aught to take some time, read books, do a couple track days, take a couple classes and start finding out what happened.
You never will know until you take a look at this like an engineer, do not take peoples advice who are busy perpetuating old wives tales.
Tell me, in whatever kind of engineering you are in, how much would get done if this is how people tried to build something?
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:36 PM   #26
L.B.S.
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Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
I am not so arrogant
Yes, yes you are.

To even start this thread with such patronizing condescension, screams arrogance.
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:11 PM   #27
Louis Wambsganss
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Originally Posted by L.B.S. View Post
Yes, yes you are.

To even start this thread with such patronizing condescension, screams arrogance.
Agreed. To make a statement such as, and I quote, "There is absolutely no truth whatsoever to the "slick" new tires" is very arrogant. That claim asserts that you are smarter and more skilled than every single person in the history of motorcycle tires who has claimed that new tires are slick, for any reason. That is statistically improbable.

I have ridden multiple bikes year-round in dry sub-freezing conditions, and warmer wet conditions. My only experience with a tire getting 'squirrelly" for no apparent reason was on a new tire, leaning slowly into the chicken strips.

Plenty of other riders on this forum (in this post and in multiple others) and on other forums all report similar stories. It is a possibility that the OP is a god among motorcyclists and everyone else is an idiot. However, that is a very remote possibility. What is much more likely is that there is some truth to the recurring situations.

If you rule out road surface conditions, ambient conditions, and bike control inputs, you are left with tire surface friction (or maybe invisible goblins mysteriously ejaculating into the contact patch).
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:24 PM   #28
dogjaw
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"I am not arrogant..."

Yeah, I picked right up on that when I saw your user name; not just Blurr, but The Blurr... Such humility must make you so proud.
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:25 PM   #29
luckygrownup
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Originally Posted by Louis Wambsganss View Post

Yeah, that was my post. I think this the first time I tried to counter-steer a bike on cold or new tires. It was pretty stupid. But, in three years of commuting in all weather, and about 5-6 sets of road tires, I have had one violent fish tail on a R1150 RTP. I think I mistakenly attributed that cause to oil or a white line. But, now I think it was just cold tires.

So, I am still learning...
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:45 PM   #30
Louis Wambsganss
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Originally Posted by luckygrownup View Post
Yeah, that was my post. I think this the first time I tried to counter-steer a bike on cold or new tires. It was pretty stupid. But, in three years of commuting in all weather, and about 5-6 sets of road tires, I have had one violent fish tail on a R1150 RTP. I think I mistakenly attributed that cause to oil or a white line. But, now I think it was just cold tires.

So, I am still learning...
There seems to be a common trait among some of these reports, and that is Metzeler Tires. I've had Metz ME880s without issue. They would break traction gradually and in a controlled manner, but that was probably close to 10 years ago. The Z8s I have now are the only one's that have given me issues.
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