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Old 12-21-2013, 09:04 AM   #46
Albie
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So you're saying that you could actually come up with a more petty thread. Gotcha.
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:07 AM   #47
Treadless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
bla bla bla bla :)

D00d, get a grip. Track tires/road tires, apples & oranges. Track riding/road riding advice should not combined or confused with people you know not and it's a disservice to them to do so. If people want to take extra care with their new tires you would be wise to applaud them rather than ridicule them as they are less likely to become a statistic that will be used against all of us. JAT

Just to be clear n00b, you do come off as arrogant and your opinions are suspect at best. "TheBlurr", must be the description of your fingers zooming all over your keyboard inflating your post count.


*edit* For my piece of mind I wipe all tires off with a rag soaked with lacquer thinner to clean off what ever may be on them and then ride em till they're done. For clarification I'm talking road tires.
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:07 AM   #48
Louis Wambsganss
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Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
tires play an integral part in motorcycle safety, knowing the realistic capabilities of your machine will enable you to have a more safe and long riding career. If you are not comfortable with your tires as I posted before that will transition into poor riding behavior.
Making excucses under false pretenses helps no one whatsoever, and riding in gravel to scrub your tires is silly lol funny as hell actually.
It is up to you how you would like to ride, the thread was to inform and to help people better themselves, if you do not wish to progress, then please, move on. :)
Maybe I'm completely off base here, but at this point, considering the spelling, grammar, and vitriol, I have to think that there is a significant amount of trolling going on here. Maybe I shouldn't continue to feed into it.

Similar to a previous poster, 90% of my riding is a short 3.5 mile urban commute to work. I have never had an issue on this short commute, where the tires should not have a chance to warm up to full temperature. I'm not saying that a cold tire is never an issue for anyone. I'm not saying that a cold tire will grip like a warm one. I'm just saying that the issues I report were observed on longer trips, in good weather, in sweeping corners, on good concrete, under minimal acceleration. Based on my experience and that of others, there is the possibility that at least some tires have a film that needs to be removed before trying to utilize the full cornering potential of the tire.

Here is a picture of me holding some shavings of the film that came on my tire. This was removed from the side of the tread area, by dragging a razor blade at an angle perpendicular to the tire surface. This did not cut into the tire at all, just dragged across the surface. This is not rubber. It is a black colored film. It feels almost like paint. It flakes when rolled in your fingers. Tire rubber is not naturally black, it has to be dyed black. Maybe this is leftover from that dying process. I'm not sure. When using the same procedure on the center of the tread (where the surface is already scrubbed), nothing came off. No rubber; no film.



I'm not sure what other evidence would be necessary to simply establish the mere possibility that new tires might have some sort of film.
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:26 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Wambsganss View Post
Maybe I'm completely off base here, but at this point, considering the spelling, grammar, and vitriol, I have to think that there is a significant amount of trolling going on here. Maybe I shouldn't continue to feed into it.
Yea that's it.
Quote:
Similar to a previous poster, 90% of my riding is a short 3.5 mile urban commute to work. I have never had an issue on this short commute, where the tires should not have a chance to warm up to full temperature. I'm not saying that a cold tire is never an issue for anyone. I'm not saying that a cold tire will grip like a warm one. I'm just saying that the issues I report were observed on longer trips, in good weather, in sweeping corners, on good concrete, under minimal acceleration. Based on my experience and that of others, there is the possibility that at least some tires have a film that needs to be removed before trying to utilize the full cornering potential of the tire.
Based on whos experience? Dude honestly, I will make this simple, visit the damn track, most will let pretty much any type of motorcycle provided it is safety wires with the lights taped. It is strongly encouraged especially in your case to realize that people will be going into "Unsubscribed" areas of their tires and simply not falling down do to your notion of the slippery release compound.
Exposure is everything and again, to back up my Claims I am ENCOURAGING you to expose yourself to this environment.




Quote:
Here is a picture of me holding some shavings of the film that came on my tire. This was removed from the side of the tread area, by dragging a razor blade at an angle perpendicular to the tire surface. This did not cut into the tire at all, just dragged across the surface. This is not rubber. It is a black colored film. It feels almost like paint. It flakes when rolled in your fingers. Tire rubber is not naturally black, it has to be dyed black. Maybe this is leftover from that dying process. I'm not sure. When using the same procedure on the center of the tread (where the surface is already scrubbed), nothing came off. No rubber; no film.



I'm not sure what other evidence would be necessary to simply establish the mere possibility that new tires might have some sort of film.
Maybe you should look into how a tire is made and you will have your answer, it undoubtedly is some residue left over from the process, you do realize that tires have not been cut from a rubber tree in 70 years right
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:28 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
I brought this up at Lances advanced riding clinic, he shooed it off. I have no reason to believe otherwise and combined with his massive experience not only with himself, but with some of the top riders in America and the world, I will take his advice any day of the week.
The person to ask about preparing a motorcycle for a race is the crew chief and the mechanics who prepare it. Not simply the person who rides it.
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:29 AM   #51
bwalsh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fallingoff View Post
just like
gremlin bells
makes me feel
safer.

the bells was a joke
before ...

merry tyre scrubbing

thks boss/wife
for correct spell
of tyre
Need a bell?

http://winchester.craigslist.org/mcy/4249522435.html

I saw that the other day and had to laugh.

The correct spelling in the SE USA is "tars"
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Old 12-21-2013, 09:39 AM   #52
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Great school if people are interested, his book was outstanding and very simple to understand, I have heard nothing but good about his teachings.


http://www.totalcontroltraining.net/
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:06 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baloneyskin daddy View Post
Any time a solid is heated to liquid then allowed to cool and return to solid form there is a resulting crust or skin that forms on the surface. .
What are you talking about? Rubber is not "a solid heated to a liquid then allowed to cool and return to solid". It's a solid from start to finish.


(speaking only of the factory I work in)

My two cents on this, as a tire factory employee. The factory I work at, which makes car tires, does not use any kind of coating in the tire mold. We have tried it, and it failed. We do spray on a silicon based release agent onto each tire, inside and out, tread and sidewall. Someone mentioned filling in nooks and crannies, that's bullshit. In my plant, if the rubber doesn't get into every little space it's supposed to, if the tread blocks aren't sharp, if there is too much mold flash, that mold is shut down until it can be resolved. (I have done maintenance in every area of the factory)

I have never thought to scrub in car tires, but every time I install tires on my bike I take it easy for the first 100-150 miles before I get aggressive.

Tuna Helper screwed with this post 12-21-2013 at 10:28 AM
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:08 AM   #54
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Being Careful with new tires is GOOD advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
You trust your friend more than Lance Holst former professional AMA racer, Nicky Hayden/Jason Pridmore manager who also helped set up Kevin Swantz Riding school?

As well as the Service Rep for Pirrelli?

You really want a treat go to a race track sometime, you get to see lots of brand new shiny tires, some with a sticker on.

FYI I hvae a very close friend whom I consider an Amazing Mechanic who perpetuated this myth just like your friend.
They also have and use Tire warmers.

If you think new tires are not slick you are a fool. While it is true that they no longer use mold release it is also true that an un-scuffed tire that is cold is very slick!

About 10 miles of riding should heat them up enough to be ridden in an assertive fashion.

You should be careful what you post because it could get someone hurt or worse. "Being careful on new tires" is good advice and will hurt nobody.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:11 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by damurph View Post
Having landed on my ass on a new set of rubber.... I believe it.
I also believe in gravity... not just a good idea...it's the law.
Having roadraced for over 10 years, I second this......

It's not "opinion" that new tires are slippery, it's a fact.

I've been through probably 1000 sets of tires......
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:19 AM   #56
DAKEZ
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Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post

Tires also get harder with every heat cycle, those tires which are five years old do not have near the traction of a nice shiny new tire ya'll are afraid of. Yet you would not hesitate to jump on said tire simply because "they are not new"
FIVE YEAR OLD TIRE???? Say... Are you one of them R.U.B.'s that dress like a Pirate and only rides when it is sunny and between 70 and 80 degrees?

(I am lucky if I get 6 months)
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:23 AM   #57
Tuna Helper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Wambsganss View Post
Tire rubber is not naturally black, it has to be dyed black. Maybe this is leftover from that dying process. I'm not sure. When using the same procedure on the center of the tread (where the surface is already scrubbed), nothing came off. No rubber; no film.



I'm not sure what other evidence would be necessary to simply establish the mere possibility that new tires might have some sort of film.
That stuff is likely the mold release. After a couple dozen tires you can see the mold release build up in the mold, and after a couple hundred the mold goes from clean aluminum to dark brown, almost black. It builds up enough that you can see the change in a new tire.

The rubber we use in our tires is a mix of natural and synthetic. I don't remember which is which, but one of them is a mottled dark green color, and the other is white. The black color is not from being dyed, but from the carbon black that is added. Carbon Black is added for wear resistance.

I would like to make a video on how ires are made, but I'm not allowed to take pictures or film anything.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:25 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
FIVE YEAR OLD TIRE???? Say... Are you one of them R.U.B.'s that dress like a Pirate and only rides when it is sunny and between 70 and 80 degrees?

(I am lucky if I get 6 months)
You mean like all those bikes that people buy which have stock tires of several years old?
Like blow out sales on tires sitting in a warehouse?
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:27 AM   #59
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Ok, help me out Tuna. I didn't understand what you were saying. You don't use a mold release agent but then you said you sprayed silicone on all surfaces of the tires. When in the process does this get done? Why do you do it? Is it on the tire when it leaves your factory? I'm not trying to be a smart ass I really want to understand.

In my work life I worked in a plant that molded plastics and urethane foam products. When these materials hit a polished mold surface they developed a "skim" on the surface of the product. This "skim" had a different coefficient of friction because it was "polished" by surface tension. Think of this like bread. It's all the same dough but the crust is decidedly different than the bubbled inner core. I'm suggesting the slippery MC tire, if not coated by a release agent or preservative, is slippery due to the surface tension of the molded rubber. Once scuffed free of this "skim" the tire bites the road better. Rubber compounding is a science and differs from tire to tire. Some tires need more scuffing than others.

Long story short I scuff tires.
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:31 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
You mean like all those bikes that people buy which have stock tires of several years old?
Like blow out sales on tires sitting in a warehouse?
Not from a proper motorcycle store. If they are six years old they get replaced... It doesn't matter if they have a hundred miles on them. It they date code out they should be GONE!
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