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Old 12-21-2013, 08:16 PM   #76
TheBlurr OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Wambsganss View Post
Dunlop mentions an acclamation period for the rider to get used to the profile of a new tire. The three I quoted specifically make mention of breaking in the tire, not the rider.

No one here is saying you are wrong about a cold tire having less grip than a tire at optimum temperature. That certainly is a valid consideration. As is the need for the rider to get used to the profile of new tires.

The problem is that you are completely dismissing anyone and everyone who says anything about surface film or abrasion playing a part at times.

If you had an altruistic intent here to inform the rest of us peons of the massive knowledge gained on your first track day, you have gone about it in a terribly inefficient manner. Your name calling, personal attacks, arrogance, condescension, and refusal to even consider any evidence to the contrary of your pre-formed opinion have alienated anyone who may have listened to you if you had presented your ideas in a thoughtful manner.

Regardless of the way you delivered your opinion, I feel that there is sufficient evidence to debunk it. Yes, cold tires can be slick. Yes, new tires feel different than old tires. But at least some new tires can also benefit from a few easy miles to remove any possible surface coatings and establish a uniform surface roughness that interacts well with road surfaces.

It only takes a single case to the contrary to disprove the kind of absolute statements you have been making. The rest of us have provided several.
Whatever, the rest did nothing but provide subjective BS, I do appreciate your research and I hope you go further and try some track days, ride safe
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:36 PM   #77
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Are new tires as slick on a treadmill as they are on pavement?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old 12-21-2013, 08:54 PM   #78
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I'll surmise his thread is a response/refutation to my statement here:

Yesterday, 06:38 AM #3
ozmoses
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New tires- after mounting I scrub them with a stiff bristle brush and Dawn dish detergent, then hit them with the random orbit sander 60 grit before installing the wheels.

So far, that has worked...
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in which case allow me to re-iterate that "so far, that has worked..."

You,Blurr, are free to do as you see fit.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:00 PM   #79
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But how does this apply to car tires?


























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Old 12-21-2013, 11:58 PM   #80
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If you go to the Pirelli UK website, and download the 220 page PDF which is their 2013 motorcycle tyre guide, on page 212 you will find........


RUN-IN
In order for your new tyres to provide optimum performance, all new tyres should be ridden very cauti- ously for the first 100-200 kms.
Immediately after new tyres are mounted, sudden acceleration, heavy braking, and hard cornering must be avoided until the 100-200 Kms run-in period is completed.




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Old 12-22-2013, 12:29 AM   #81
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Sorry The Blurr, I couldn't resist, found this funny, hope you do too ;-)
verb(blurs, blurring, blurred)
  • make or become unclear or less distinct
noun

  • a thing that cannot be seen or heard clearly
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:40 AM   #82
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Ok I cannot take the idiocy any longer

Do you have warning stickers on anything you buy? YES why?
To avoid any kind of lawsuit, they will do anything to limit their responsibility within one. Sometimes within industry even when there is no chance because stupid rumors get started, as with this you still carry BS warnings.
Ask yourself, if you are a tire manufacturer even though you know it is BS, should some little butt stain eat shit right off what are his odds of a successful lawsuit without this warning?
Well if this forum is a jury then we would have your answer now wouldn't we?
Example when you are filling up at a gas station there is absolutely no way in hell your Cell phone can start a fire, however because enough brainless twits saw a video of a fire they believe it is true. Petrol companies get scared and just in case put up signs.
Its not, it cannot happen no way, no how feel free to do your research on it as well.

Now Lets go over something else, Mr Holsts Pedigree

  1. Roadraced from 1985-1998 with success in club,
    regional, Formula USA and AMA Pro racing
  2. Motorcyclist magazine Associate Editor and later went
    on to co-found Sport Rider magazine
  3. Team Manager of HyperCycle Suzuki AMA Pro
    roadracing team 1997-1998
  • Won AMA 750 SuperSport in the team's rookie
    season with Jason Pridmore
  • Recruited the little-known 16-year-old Nicky
    Hayden to his first professional paid ride
  • Chief Instructor and founding member of
    Jason Pridmore's STAR Motorcycle School 1998-2001
  • Chief Instructor and founding member of
    Kevin Schwantz Suzuki School 2001-2005
  • Freelance journalist, riding coach, curriculum writer,
    researcher and consultant with Sport Rider magazine,
    Buell and Harley-Davidson among others from 2005
    to present day. I've devoted a large portion of my life to observing, analyzing,
    theorizing and teaching riders of all ability levels. I've been
    privileged to create curriculums around World Champion
    racers and teach alongside them in U.S., Germany, France
    and Japan. I've taken that experience to create the
    Holst Ride Smarter School designed for riders of any ability
    level, on any type of bike to learn to ride smarter, safer and
    more confidently in any situation."

    So based on his career as not only a Racer but a Team manager, as Someone who founded schools for one of the most talented racing legends in the world. Spending years within the journalist community riding god only knows how many motorbikes all on fresh un scuffed tires he suspected just as another racer on this thread, that the Stories regarding the new tire slickness were BS.

    Now lets go over the reasons people think he is wrong

    1. most popular "My trusted mechanic said so"
    Ok so where did he get his information? Oh thats right he heard it and carried it forth as well,

    2. Well my tires feel slick
    I addressed that earlier as well as the mental aspect

    3. Well well sanding my tires has worked so far
    Really? So your comparison to riding a tire without scrubbing how now?

    4. My rear end slid out on me once 2 HOURS after I started riding, it had to be the film on the side of the tire, there is no other reason

    LoLz
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    Old 12-22-2013, 06:19 AM   #83
    ozmoses
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    Quote:
    3. Well well sanding my tires has worked so far
    Really? So your comparison to riding a tire without scrubbing how now?

    LoLz
    Years ago ( pre -internet) I did not clean my tires at all prior to riding;one day while having fresh rubber installed at a Dealer I noticed the tech take the freshly mounted tires out the back door so I followed. There he had a bucket of soapy water and a stiff bristled brush. We talked and he mentioned this was SOP but that he, personally, took it a step further and hit his own tires with a sanding disk before riding.

    When I began changing my own, I simply followed suit through many tires,miles & smiles; again, so far it has worked.


    Anyone who has ridden on the street knows what to expect from fresh rubber. It seems your experience differs 100%-good for you, stick with it. The rest of us will stick with our method.

    What, exactly, is it you need to hear in regard to this topic?
    I'll tell you what I hear-waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, look at me.

    LoLz


    Out of curiosity-how long have you been riding?

    I'll go first-30 years.
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    ozmoses screwed with this post 12-22-2013 at 06:28 AM
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    Old 12-22-2013, 06:46 AM   #84
    C/1/509
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    I guess I don't understand the argument. I don't do the scrubbing/sanding thing, but always ride a little conservatively on new tires for the first 50 - 100 miles. Do I really need to? I dunno, but it doesn't seem to hurt anything. If you go like hell (or ride the way you would normally ride, whatever) on brand new tires and don't have issues, great. What's the issue?
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    Old 12-22-2013, 06:57 AM   #85
    dogjaw
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    I recently highsided my bike, posted the incident over in Faceplant... My tires were well scrubbed in, but it wasn't until I got the bike home and under some good light that I noticed this:



    Although I'm sure that there were many factors involved, it appears to me that I ventured a little to far over into the unscrubbed "chicken strip" area, and it is possible that if that area had been scrubbed in, I may have had a bit more forgiveness. Is this 100 percent accurate? Probably not, but if pre scrubbing in the tires would help even a bit, and doesn't appear to do any harm, and the manufacturers suggest it for whatever reason, I will resume doing it in the future. I had always done it to previous bikes, but bought this bike on the road in Colorado and rode it home to Arkansas.
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    Old 12-22-2013, 07:38 AM   #86
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post


    Now lets go over the reasons people think he is wrong

    1. most popular "My trusted mechanic said so"
    Ok so where did he get his information? Oh thats right he heard it and carried it forth as well,

    2. Well my tires feel slick
    I addressed that earlier as well as the mental aspect

    3. Well well sanding my tires has worked so far
    Really? So your comparison to riding a tire without scrubbing how now?

    4. My rear end slid out on me once 2 HOURS after I started riding, it had to be the film on the side of the tire, there is no other reason

    LoLz
    5. The person(s) in this thread directly involved with current modern tire manufacturing who know mold release agents are still used.

    6. The manufacturers, who give break-in procedures for new DOT street tires.

    7. The manufacturers, who offer various preparations for competition tires.

    I'm sure it was an accident on your part that you forgot those.
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    Old 12-22-2013, 07:48 AM   #87
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    If you take safety advice from someone you've not met the 'net you deserve what you get. When it comes to motorcycles prudence is not hurting anyone.
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    Old 12-22-2013, 08:07 AM   #88
    Lion BR
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    I think the best way to settle this is to have a little race of sorts.
    Same bikes, TheBlurr with freshly installed tires against someone else with run in tires on a tight and twisty course.
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    Old 12-22-2013, 10:04 AM   #89
    erkmania
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    I love a thread that implodes on itself...and, particularly if the OP gets a good and proper beat-down for telling others how the world IS. That's just good entertainment, right there.

    I also find that I usually get more education from the respondents than from the OP and you folks didn't disappoint. Thanks.

    To the OP, why do you care so much? You're blathering will have little positive effect on anyone that heeds your advice. You are likely the first person I have read that advocated against safety.

    My tire preparation includes a couple of variations.

    1) I have been known to use WD-40 on tire beads to seat them. It has seemed to prevent tire slippage on the rim more than using tire soap. That's just from my anecdotal testing. And, I use 'just' enough to get the bead seated by applying it onto the bead with a rag prior to mounting (this was not meant as a highjack).

    2) I use brake cleaner sprayed onto a rag to clean the outermost 1-inch per side of the tread. This cleans off any residual installation elixirs or surface contaminants. I have done this for years be my bike street or race based. Knobbies (or big-block tires) don't usually get that much attention unless they're for a street-going adventure bike.

    3) I don't really sweat the break-in period too much. If I did that during a race then the race might be over before I ever got up to speed. Nevertheless, I do not neglect the warning, either. After installing tires, I will do about a ten-mile road test to be sure the beads are seated and that I got most of the tread put into service. Also, I do not toss the bike onto its side aggressively until I know that most of the tread surface has been used at least once. This gives me the chance to sense if the new tire(s) are going to be alright. I have found that medium speed sweepers (50 to 75 mph) are good to scuff tires on because you can roll into them gently and keep accelerating until your desired maximum lean is accomplished. Further, the higher speeds keep the bike stable (compared to 25 mph residential speeds) if there IS a temporary loss of grip.

    I prefer to NOT run-in tires on residential or urban roads; too many oily deposits and debris. Once my initial road test is done then I give the tires a final visual inspection and a pressure check. So, I estimate that I am cautious for about 10 to 20 miles after installation, not 100 miles.

    I really suspect that litigation has driven the manufacturers to be very conservative.

    Lastly, I do not condone your use of my techniques if you are not comfortable with them.
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    Old 12-22-2013, 11:36 AM   #90
    dmcd
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    2008, man from Pirelli says don't "scrub in" tyres.

    2013, Pirelli tech sheet still says "run in" tyres.


    Pick whichever one you like, and have a Merry Christmas!
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