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Old 12-22-2013, 12:51 PM   #91
Motomantra
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I scrub my new tires with a wire brush, to make sure the ARMOR-ALL I sprayed on them gets impregnated.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:14 PM   #92
JustinP
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Well duh. Off course tire manufacturers are selling "slick" tires. If you ever watch the pit crew at motorcycle races, you will see them sanding the new tires before putting them on.

Seriously though, the thing you need to be careful of with new tires is grease and oil from the shop floor or from the technician's hand that mounted them.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:16 PM   #93
pennswoodsed
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something else at work here

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcd View Post
For two weeks each year I go to the IOM TT/ Manx GP. I have watched literally hundreds of riders go off the line with stickers on their new shiny tyres and hit top speed straight away. But if you watch and listen to the on board footage, of which there is many hours on Youtube, they all take it (slightly) easier for the first few corners and miles.


I rate their "real road racing" opinion, higher than your gravel trap/air fence cosseted track racers and tutors.


But, I do also agree with you that the profile of a new tyre makes a bike feel different, and could mistakenly be blamed on the coating.
ok , on the sticker thing, many if not most here may find this absolutely unbelievable . Racers are superstitious about the stickers, I have been stopped by several racers from pulling the sticker off.
It has been some time since I handled a new Pirelli, so maybe they no longer use mold release agent.But , I can say that new tires are greasy feeling in your hands and on roads for +/- 100 miles . Any one else here seen a tire mold in person ?
May I have the Pirelli engineers name ?
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:29 PM   #94
Mambo Dave
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This thread is such BS for the new tires I've put on.

My last experience, and forst video with my new Gopro camera, was a reminder as to why most of us need to remember to take it easy on new tires. I was so focused on the new camera that I wasn't focused on the new rear tire, so at a corner that I used to, and now, take hard I almost lost the bike due to what I'm now being told was a fake/imagined slipperiness to the tire. Comically, that slide-out and loss of control, and near high-side, almost happened again at a different spot that ride because, again, I was focused on the camera and just treating the bike as if it had the old rear tire on (smae make/model).
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:29 PM   #95
GI_JO_NATHAN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna Helper View Post
We do spray on a silicon based release agent onto each tire, inside and out, tread and sidewall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuna Helper View Post
That stuff is likely the mold release. After a couple dozen tires you can see the mold release build up in the mold, and after a couple hundred the mold goes from clean aluminum to dark brown, almost black. It builds up enough that you can see the change in a new tire.
Isn't this basically what we're talking about scrubbing off?
Sounds like it's been confirmed by someone that makes tires, that some do use a release agent, and sometimes it stays on the tires.
Case closed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion BR View Post
I think the best way to settle this is to have a little race of sorts.
Same bikes, TheBlurr with freshly installed tires against someone else with run in tires on a tight and twisty course.
This is the best idea yet.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POLLOCK28 (XDTALK.com)
From what I understand from frequenting various forums you are handling this critisim completely wrong. You are supposed to get bent out of shape and start turning towards personal attacks. Get with the program!
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:57 PM   #96
Butters
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I have no idea which, if any, tires have "mold release." What I do believe (from firsthand experience) is some, not all, new tires are slick.

No vast experience here.But on one occasion after installing the wheel, I pulled out of my driveway and made an immediate 90* left (10mph or so). The front end washed out but I was able to recover. This was not because it was cold or the profile - it was slick. Nothing in the road. Returned to the house and cleaned off the tires. Awesome tire after I got some miles on it.

The tire was new. FACT
The tire was slick. FACT

Why was it slick? Mold release; grease from my hands; did the tire suddenly seat in the rim; alien tractor beam?? No idea. Nothing the OP posted "debunks" that experience even if what he posted was factual.

The OP tried to "debunk" one possible cause (mold release) and assume it would be the only possible cause. He also equates track/racing experience with recreational experience. This is flawed logic. I don't care how experienced somebody is, if their logic is flawed their conclusion is also likely flawed.

No mold release? Fine. Then my tire was slick for some other reason when it was new. Until I know why some tires are like this, I will continue to lightly sand the surface of all of them and make sure they get numerous heat cycles before I ride aggressively.
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:59 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBlurr View Post
Ok I cannot take the idiocy any longer

Do you have warning stickers on anything you buy? YES why?
To avoid any kind of lawsuit, they will do anything to limit their responsibility within one. Sometimes within industry even when there is no chance because stupid rumors get started, as with this you still carry BS warnings.
Ask yourself, if you are a tire manufacturer even though you know it is BS, should some little butt stain eat shit right off what are his odds of a successful lawsuit without this warning?
Well if this forum is a jury then we would have your answer now wouldn't we?
Example when you are filling up at a gas station there is absolutely no way in hell your Cell phone can start a fire, however because enough brainless twits saw a video of a fire they believe it is true. Petrol companies get scared and just in case put up signs.
Its not, it cannot happen no way, no how feel free to do your research on it as well.

Now Lets go over something else, Mr Holsts Pedigree

  1. Roadraced from 1985-1998 with success in club,
    regional, Formula USA and AMA Pro racing
  2. Motorcyclist magazine Associate Editor and later went
    on to co-found Sport Rider magazine
  3. Team Manager of HyperCycle Suzuki AMA Pro
    roadracing team 1997-1998
  • Won AMA 750 SuperSport in the team's rookie
    season with Jason Pridmore
  • Recruited the little-known 16-year-old Nicky
    Hayden to his first professional paid ride
  • Chief Instructor and founding member of
    Jason Pridmore's STAR Motorcycle School 1998-2001
  • Chief Instructor and founding member of
    Kevin Schwantz Suzuki School 2001-2005
  • Freelance journalist, riding coach, curriculum writer,
    researcher and consultant with Sport Rider magazine,
    Buell and Harley-Davidson among others from 2005
    to present day. I've devoted a large portion of my life to observing, analyzing,
    theorizing and teaching riders of all ability levels. I've been
    privileged to create curriculums around World Champion
    racers and teach alongside them in U.S., Germany, France
    and Japan. I've taken that experience to create the
    Holst Ride Smarter School designed for riders of any ability
    level, on any type of bike to learn to ride smarter, safer and
    more confidently in any situation."

    So based on his career as not only a Racer but a Team manager, as Someone who founded schools for one of the most talented racing legends in the world. Spending years within the journalist community riding god only knows how many motorbikes all on fresh un scuffed tires he suspected just as another racer on this thread, that the Stories regarding the new tire slickness were BS.

    Now lets go over the reasons people think he is wrong

    1. most popular "My trusted mechanic said so"
    Ok so where did he get his information? Oh thats right he heard it and carried it forth as well,

    2. Well my tires feel slick
    I addressed that earlier as well as the mental aspect

    3. Well well sanding my tires has worked so far
    Really? So your comparison to riding a tire without scrubbing how now?

    4. My rear end slid out on me once 2 HOURS after I started riding, it had to be the film on the side of the tire, there is no other reason

    LoLz



  • Too long, didn't bother to read, still gonna take it easy for the first few miles on new tires.
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    Old 12-22-2013, 02:27 PM   #98
    ragtoplvr
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    Until someone here can visit EVERY single motorcycle tire manufacturing plant in the world and certify that the are 100% free of mold release, and certify that all mounting lubricants are free of any slippery substances, I am going to behave as if mold release is on my tires. I am pretty confident that the Shinko tires I use have mold release. For a fact they are slick unless cleaned buffed and gravel roaded. Not slick like ice, but half normal traction.

    They are not racing tires, they are for the street. I have not been on racing tires in over 30 years.

    The OP could regularly walk on water, have super human skills that negate the need for tire scuffing, hell he could have the ability to suspend the laws of physics. I am still breaking in my tires and recommend any other mere mortal break in their tires. In fact I have learned over the years that as soon as one puffs out their chest to show all their metals, there is no substance in their words.

    This is as silly as ABS and motor oil arguments.


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    Old 12-22-2013, 05:30 PM   #99
    Vulfy
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    From personal experience, I crashed my poor old CB750 coming out of mechanic's garage on new set of tires. Rear wheel spun and slid like it was on ice.

    A bit older and wiser, when I sat on my recently purchased SV650, used from the dealer but with brand new tires, I made sure to do a bunch of figure 8s in their parking lot, as well as braking. Rear tire would lock up almost immediately with rear brake, only after a little bit of riding and gradually putting more force into braking, did it stop locking up, and I was comfortable to get on the street on it.

    OP you can listen to all experts in the world, but personal real life experience trumps them all.
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    Old 12-22-2013, 05:39 PM   #100
    fallingoff
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Vulfy View Post
    From personal experience, I crashed my poor old CB750 coming out of mechanic's garage on new set of tires. Rear wheel spun and slid like it was on ice.

    A bit older and wiser, when I sat on my recently purchased SV650, used from the dealer but with brand new tires, I made sure to do a bunch of figure 8s in their parking lot, as well as braking. Rear tire would lock up almost immediately with rear brake, only after a little bit of riding and gradually putting more force into braking, did it stop locking up, and I was comfortable to get on the street on it.

    OP you can listen to all experts in the world, but personal real life experience trumps them all.
    did the same out my driveway
    very embarrassing
    cold tyre
    lesson be careful
    when tyres are cold/new/greasy garage floor/worked on bike etc

    merry xmas
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    Old 12-22-2013, 05:52 PM   #101
    blk-betty
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    Admit I have no experience with going down on new tires nor finding them slippery. Probabbly more of a function of my less than overly aggressive riding style but if as most claim they need to be scrubbed in for safety reasons I think the entire motorcycle street tire industry could be held liable for all the reported faceplants.

    We live in a horridly litigious society and I have never heard of anyone bringing suit aganist a bike tire mfg for tires that were not "ready for the road" as delivered.

    Seems to the uninformed that if they needed to be scrubbed this would be done by the mfgs before delivery, or it isn't necessary. Simply stating that one should "take it easy" for the first 100 miles is not enough to ward off nor win a lawsuit if in fact the tires are inherently more dangerous during the initial run in.

    Possibly this was the case 20+ years ago but I'm just guessing here that with 2013 manufacturing technology that it does not hold true today.

    Go easy for the first 100 miles to get the tire thru a few heat cycles and get use to the different (and improved) profile, and rid it of any mounting grease/soaps, etc. Call it scrubbing in if you want.
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    Old 12-22-2013, 06:04 PM   #102
    GI_JO_NATHAN
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blk-betty View Post
    Admit I have no experience...
    Sorry, I quit reading after this.
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by POLLOCK28 (XDTALK.com)
    From what I understand from frequenting various forums you are handling this critisim completely wrong. You are supposed to get bent out of shape and start turning towards personal attacks. Get with the program!
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    Old 12-22-2013, 06:15 PM   #103
    DAKEZ
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MT Wallet View Post
    I've seen some condescending and patronizing remarks by many people of all stripes but pal, you take the cake. You're obviously looking for some kind of acknowledgement for something. Do you think you're famous or just some sad poser who wishes he was. I usually don't get offended by much but your arrogant attitude is offensive. Nobody's opinion or experience or even a manufacturer can trump your vast name dropping self serving crap. Feel free to kiss my tire scuffing ass.
    No shit. Did everyone else that questioned him get PM's like I did? He should change his name from TheBlurr to TheBut-hurt.
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    Old 12-22-2013, 06:17 PM   #104
    blk-betty
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GI_JO_NATHAN View Post
    Sorry, I quit reading after this.
    Ha ha. Should have read the next 10 words but maybe reading is hard.

    I've gone done before, and likely will again, but ever single time it was because I was doing stupid stuff, not because my equipment was unsafe or tires were new.

    Stand by my assertion that new tires are safe as delivered and need no special attention.
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    Old 12-22-2013, 06:26 PM   #105
    Tuna Helper
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MT Wallet View Post
    Ok, help me out Tuna. I didn't understand what you were saying. You don't use a mold release agent but then you said you sprayed silicone on all surfaces of the tires. When in the process does this get done? Why do you do it? Is it on the tire when it leaves your factory? I'm not trying to be a smart ass I really want to understand.
    We have tried to use molds that were teflon coated (not really teflon but similar) and they did not work well. The silicone is sprayed on after the tire is assembled.

    Contrary to belief, tires are not injection molded. Basically a tire is made of many layers wrapped around a drum. Tires start on a first step machine where they lay down the inner liner, nylon/polyester plies, set the beads, add another nylon/polyester layer, and sidewall. From there they go to another machine where the steel belts and tread are put on. Then they get sprayed with mold release before going to the press.

    Those little rubber hairs you see on tires, are from the vents in the molds. The more intricate the tread and sidewall, the more of those vents, and after the molds are removed and cleaned someone has to drill out each and every one of those. It can take hours.
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