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Old 12-20-2013, 03:26 AM   #1
theboxers OP
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Who's better

the rider or racer? Is there a difference? Can someone go from one to the other or be both? Who would you rather have in your team?

Jorge Lorenzo is regarded, currently, as the best rider in MotoGP. His ability to push his bike closer to the edge, without being ragged, is better than anyone else atm. He is super smooth in his riding style which helps his yamaha achieve the results he has had.

Dani Pedrosa is a great rider. But in all the time he has been in MotoGP he has failed to deliver the WC his abilities seem to deserve. I can not recall a race he has won from a late in the race pass after coming from down in the field.

Casey Stoner was a great rider. He sole ability to make the duc work is testament to that. But most of his wins iirc came from starting at front or front row. I do not recall any deep from the field wins. Also to jump on a bike that Dani has developed and win a WC first time out shows he can ride.

Valentino Rossi was a great rider and racer. I think he is now past his prime. He had a proven ability to take a slightly weaker bike and win races. He could also race. Making late, seemingly impossible, passes to win.

Marc Marquez is currently a good rider in MotoGP imo. He seems to be on the ragged edge more than any of the other top riders. Just moments from being down the road. A raw talent. But he can race. He will push to overtake the rider in front of him. He can ride but seems to be happier(?) racing with those around him.

I would rather have a racer, provided they got rseults. A racer that goes down the road is a liability.

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Old 12-20-2013, 03:47 AM   #2
troy safari carpente
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Laugh and while we're pouring petrol on the off season bonfire...

Give him 15 years back - courtesy of Walt Disney's cryogenic chamber - and get ol' Dr Costa to remove some of the assorted hardware he has in his in wrist/ankles and whatnot. Fix the greying gun up with a shot of adrenalin in one arm, viagra in the other and Magic Mick Doohan would shit all over the lot of 'em*... FFS he mentored half of them into what they became.

(*take all the traction aids/control tyre bullshit away and let real men ride raw bikes again...).




I'm not letting my unbiased aussie parochialism show through the facade of objectivity... am I?
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troy safari carpente screwed with this post 12-20-2013 at 03:53 AM
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Old 12-20-2013, 11:52 AM   #3
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Old 12-20-2013, 02:00 PM   #4
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I don't think you're giving MM the credit he's due, he did just beat Lorenzo for the title in his rookie year. Rookie riders often are a bit ragged and then generally get more consistent and become better racers as they mature.

Rossi in his prime was something to watch though, I'd have to say he's up there with the all time greats.
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Old 12-20-2013, 08:17 PM   #5
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Old 12-21-2013, 02:29 AM   #6
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I did not put my thoughts on to paper that well. I did not mean to highlight the individual. I was trying to see if there was a difference in mentallity. Everyone is in the "race" but how you complete that race is down to the individual.

Dani (and Jorge for the last few years) have been great riders. Get to the front early and disappear up the road. Then manage a gap to the finish. Casey did the same on the duc.

Valentino (historically) and Marc (currently) are not great starters of races. But they will try to work their way through the field to the head of the race.

Dani in the 2nd half of 2012 came out of his shell and started to fight for the lead. It almost got him a WC. It was great to see. This year after a reasonable start he went back to being Dani.

Jorge can, when required, race. But seems to prefer the "see ya later" style of beat your opponents into submission ride. Possibly due to the Yamaha not having the same power as other bikes.

All things being equal I would prefer somebody with a "racer" attitude. They will, sometimes, disappear up the road. But will not be worried about having to fight for a position.
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Old 12-21-2013, 04:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael1968 View Post
I don't think you're giving MM the credit he's due, he did just beat Lorenzo for the title in his rookie year. Rookie riders often are a bit ragged and then generally get more consistent and become better racers as they mature.
Yep, Marc Marquez has changed the game in MotoGP, and for the better for us spectators IMO. One could also arque, that because of him Lorenzo was forced to push more, which led to the crash at Assen, where he broke his collarbone (and actually the same goes for Pedrosa @ Sachsenring).

And this wasn΄t the year, when MM started to re-write the record books, even though it has been his best so far. But remember, he wiped the entire Moto2 field from dead last position, or very nearly so, twice last year. Back in 2010 he did the same in 125, when fighting for the world championship, after he had crashed on the sighting lap. He΄s often accused of being overly aggressive, but for his age, the kid has a very very cool head, and seems unphazed no matter what happens.

This year was no fluke, sure he had some luck with the crashes, but he also got disqualified in Oz through no fault of his own. So in fact he took the crown by simply being the best.

Now that he΄s no longer a rookie, and has his own data for all track from 2013, I believe you could put ΄em all on factory Hondas next year, and Marquez would still defend his title succesfully.
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Old 12-21-2013, 12:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theboxers View Post

Marc Marquez is currently a good rider in MotoGP imo. He seems to be on the ragged edge more than any of the other top riders. Just moments from being down the road. A raw talent. But he can race. He will push to overtake the rider in front of him. He can ride but seems to be happier(?) racing with those around him.
If only there was a way to tell who was just good and who is the best. Some kind of competition maybe? Lots of races throughout the year and some kind of point system. At the end of the year the one with the most points would be the best.

MM is the best rider in motogp.
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Old 12-23-2013, 04:21 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by 5th-Elefant View Post
If only there was a way to tell who was just good and who is the best. Some kind of competition maybe? Lots of races throughout the year and some kind of point system. At the end of the year the one with the most points would be the best.


Marquez has very few weak points. He can put the hammer down and escape, if not, he can also fight tooth and nail in the last corner. Rain or shine, he will be up there. His only (small) weaknesses have to do with his age and limited experience in MotoGP class, and it is fully possible, that he's already put them behind in -14. Others must really be scratching their heads right now, how they're gonna have a chance against this guy.
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