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Old 01-06-2014, 09:07 PM   #46
trc.rhubarb
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Riding without a helmet is as amazing as going from a cage to a bike in the first place.
Absolutely amazing and should at least be experienced once before passing judgment.

My bike, my body, my rules. Why do some feel the need to apologize for bike or gear choices?
I wear jeans most of the time, even with my protective leather jacket, my full face helmet, my armored gloves, my armored boots... because its a pain in the ass to put on over pants and I'll just accept the risk.

I like my feet, need my hands and head to do my job but I can handle some rash on my legs. I may change my mind if I ever get a severe case but I'm probably not going to die or lose a leg due to lack of leg protection. it could happen but then it probably would even with nice leather armored pants.

So why don't we wear all the gear you want us to? Because we don't have to

That's what's great about having freedom. So ride what you like, dress how you like and the only people who will ridicule you are those that preach attgatt as if they are the only ones that understand the risk. Just remember that it never ends... why not an air vest, air bags, leatt brace, knee braces, whale foreskin full body condoms, maybe 2 more wheels, some doors and a roof? Oh shit, 2 of my bikes don't have ABS! I'm gonna die!

I ride every day, been all over and meet a lot of riders and never once have had these strange 'tough guy' and 'shit talker' experiences. Assholes abound but they are far outweighed by actual riders.
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Old 01-06-2014, 10:23 PM   #47
steelerider
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After a 35 mph incident within a deer, I've come to appreciate good quality gear. While I was lying in the ER with 6 broken bones (ribs, scapula, and clavicle) the nurse tells me "buddy whatever gear you were wearing paid for itself today - usually guys come in here with broken bones, AND blood everywhere. Then we have to clean their skin out"
My Shoei Qwest helmet looked like it had an angle grinder taken to the front of it. Ask yourself this, how can you call for help in the middle of nowhere if your jaw is broken, and your face is smashed? How will your wife feel when she has to look at your disfigured face for the rest of your lives? Forunately my helmet saved my life, and my face. All my gear, saved my skin too. I got "lucky" with some broken bones and a collar bone that now has a steel plate. 4 weeks off work, and 7 weeks of physical therapy. Lots to think about in the chopper ride to the hospital as well.

Harley, BMW, whatever. Freedoms are nice, health and a face are better.

It can happen to you. It did to me.
Dress for the slide, not the ride.

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Old 01-06-2014, 11:32 PM   #48
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:02 AM   #49
Nadgett
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I started riding in 1969, when nobody even thought about protective gear, other than a Bell open-face helmet. I fell off a few times, and found that road rash hurts. Now I never ride anywhere, no matter how short a distance, without a full-face helmet, armoured jacket (mesh or leather), armoured riding pants, boots, and riding gloves. After dark or on long trips I wear a hi-viz backpack. I have heated grips and an electric vest, and ride my Sportster year-round, except when the roads are covered in snow. Around this time of year I like to ride over to the local Harley dealer. He says, "You're riding in this weather? You're nuts!" and I reply, "The roads are dry and you're not riding? You're the one who's nuts!"
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:08 AM   #50
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1969 also. Pretty much same deal, lived in a sunny coastal resort and wanting to be like my mates rode around in boards shorts, flip-flops and no shirts on Yamaha DT 250's (remember them, then you're showing your age).

Regarding a previous comment about just maybe getting a bit of leg rash if you come off in jeans, had a mate in those days who spent 4 months in hospital from major infections from major road rash to his lower body. There was talk at one stage that they may have to amputate his leg to save his life because of the infection. He spent the next 2 years in and out of hospital having skin grafts, and was significantly disabled and disfigured for the rest of his life from the significant tissue, bone and muscle damage he'd incurred.

I'd happily incur a broken arm or leg rather than major road rash. I'm terrified of it having seen what it can do to someone. But then perhaps I'm just a total wuss. If its hot I wear textile riding pants with Kevlar lined jeans underneath. If its mild weather I wear race grade leather pants. Hot weather.....I live in Australia.

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Old 01-07-2014, 05:34 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trc.rhubarb View Post
Riding without a helmet is as amazing as going from a cage to a bike in the first place.
Absolutely amazing and should at least be experienced once before passing judgment.

My bike, my body, my rules. Why do some feel the need to apologize for bike or gear choices?
I wear jeans most of the time, even with my protective leather jacket, my full face helmet, my armored gloves, my armored boots... because its a pain in the ass to put on over pants and I'll just accept the risk.

I like my feet, need my hands and head to do my job but I can handle some rash on my legs. I may change my mind if I ever get a severe case but I'm probably not going to die or lose a leg due to lack of leg protection. it could happen but then it probably would even with nice leather armored pants.

So why don't we wear all the gear you want us to? Because we don't have to

That's what's great about having freedom. So ride what you like, dress how you like and the only people who will ridicule you are those that preach attgatt as if they are the only ones that understand the risk. Just remember that it never ends... why not an air vest, air bags, leatt brace, knee braces, whale foreskin full body condoms, maybe 2 more wheels, some doors and a roof? Oh shit, 2 of my bikes don't have ABS! I'm gonna die!

I ride every day, been all over and meet a lot of riders and never once have had these strange 'tough guy' and 'shit talker' experiences. Assholes abound but they are far outweighed by actual riders.
I hope it doesnt happen to you, really I do, but you are just another "thinker" who doesnt.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:47 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trc.rhubarb View Post
Riding without a helmet is as amazing as going from a cage to a bike in the first place.
Absolutely amazing and should at least be experienced once before passing judgment.

My bike, my body, my rules. Why do some feel the need to apologize for bike or gear choices?
I wear jeans most of the time, even with my protective leather jacket, my full face helmet, my armored gloves, my armored boots... because its a pain in the ass to put on over pants and I'll just accept the risk.

I like my feet, need my hands and head to do my job but I can handle some rash on my legs. I may change my mind if I ever get a severe case but I'm probably not going to die or lose a leg due to lack of leg protection. it could happen but then it probably would even with nice leather armored pants.

So why don't we wear all the gear you want us to? Because we don't have to

That's what's great about having freedom. So ride what you like, dress how you like and the only people who will ridicule you are those that preach attgatt as if they are the only ones that understand the risk. Just remember that it never ends... why not an air vest, air bags, leatt brace, knee braces, whale foreskin full body condoms, maybe 2 more wheels, some doors and a roof? Oh shit, 2 of my bikes don't have ABS! I'm gonna die!

I ride every day, been all over and meet a lot of riders and never once have had these strange 'tough guy' and 'shit talker' experiences. Assholes abound but they are far outweighed by actual riders.
Your body, your rules... that's ok. But think about this, riding w/o a helmet you get struck by a little rock in your sunglasses, wich breaks and causes wind to rush into your eye (even worse, you're driving w/o glasses either and the rock hits your naked eye) this will take out your vision and your attention, you'll probably start to swerve putting everyone else sharing the road in danger. Think about that family of four in the SUV coming the other way in the 2 lane going over the shoulder and upside down while avoiding hitting you when you are all over the place not seeing and stunned.

I've got my rear wheel blown up once, at 65mph and the bike threw me from the high side, I was wearing a cordura jacket eith ce approved protection on elbows and shoulders and an eva backplate, leather gloves, touring boots, full face and jeans. I ended with a broken collar bone and shoulder, 3 broken toes, several leg rash and a sprained ankle. But more curious than that was the rash I had in my back (4 inches wide, 3 inches height) near my shoulder, the concusion and the bruise in my sien. Think about that crash without protective gear and then tell me how nice is to ride without helmet.

Oh, btw I've ridden without helmet once mine was stoled and I didn't enjoyed at all...


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Old 01-07-2014, 07:49 AM   #53
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It's interesting. Talk to someone who has had a crash, and generally the answer is that they would never ride without gear again. It seems that experience is the best teacher.
There seems to be a perception around here (certainly where I live) that because you ride a cruiser, you ride slower, and an accident is less likely, therefore any protective gear is not necessary.
I reminded a friend of mine (Harley guy) that my crash happened at the speed of.....35mph.
He wears a full face helmet now after he saw the pics of my Shoei.
Perhaps it's a lack of imagination? Because honestly, if you haven't ever crashed, you likely can't imagine how much it sucks - so you wear no gear.
Dunno.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:58 AM   #54
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Kevlar Jeans - FYI

I've seen a couple mentions of Kevlar jeans in this thread and wanted to share something that turned up when I was researching gear a few years ago for those reading this thread who are considering an upgrade.

Kevlar, alone, may not be "all that," as a choice for MC gear. Be aware that Kevlar's impact resistance is high (bulletproof), but abrasion resistance isn't all that great.

Granted, it is better than cotton alone, but will wear through faster than Cordura Nylon in a slide. Cordura's downfall is that it will melt in an extended slide, so a natural fiber layer is required between it and the skin to keep the melted plastic from bonding with the skin, making for a painful cleanup. Many premium gear manufacturers offer Cordura products.

Kevlar is also very sensitive to UV. Most manufacturers who use it properly in motorcycle clothing will utilize a weave including other fabrics so it is not exposed to sunlight. Kevlar jeans that have the Kevlar exposed are examples of where the manufacturer probably doesn't understand the fabric and included it only as a sales gimmick.

For riders looking to upgrade to something more durable than jeans, riding gear made of a fabric like Shoeller-Keprotec which includes Kevlar in the weave is stronger and more abrasion resistant than new race leather (race leather ages and deteriorates from exposure to sweat, water, etc. and should be replaced every year or two).

Keprotec was designed to be a substitute for race leather and racing gear made with it has been approved for use in racing applications. It can be found in a variety of weaves, including mesh, and it dissipates heat very well so won't require a natural layer underneath. It also doesn't absorb heat, so dark colors like a black pant or jacket remains at ambient temps in direct sun.

Motoport is one manufacturer who offers a variety of styles in pants and jackets using Keprotec. Including a jean cut pant for those looking for that style in a more durable material.

Works fine, lasts a long time.

FYI
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:01 AM   #55
Ginger Beard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelerider View Post
It's interesting. Talk to someone who has had a crash, and generally the answer is that they would never ride without gear again. It seems that experience is the best teacher.
There seems to be a perception around here (certainly where I live) that because you ride a cruiser, you ride slower, and an accident is less likely, therefore any protective gear is not necessary.
I reminded a friend of mine (Harley guy) that my crash happened at the speed of.....35mph.
He wears a full face helmet now after he saw the pics of my Shoei.
Perhaps it's a lack of imagination? Because honestly, if you haven't ever crashed, you likely can't imagine how much it sucks - so you wear no gear.
Dunno.

I have known quite a few people that have had severe crashes with and without gear (a couple of them race bikes either for a living or at the am level) that still go for street rides without gear. Isn't it possible that some people simply choose a different approach to life all the while completely understanding the possible outcome of the risk that they are taking ? Isn't it possible that some very intelligent people are simply less fear driven/motivated ? Why is it that there seems to be some ridiculous assumption that Gear = Smart and No Gear = Dumb ? Seems a tad arrogant and very narrow in scope. Me? I'm kind of a pussy and don't even like to ride around my neighborhood without at least basic gear. By the way steelrider, that last part is not directed at you but I see that undertone in just about every gear thread.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:19 AM   #56
Red9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Beard View Post
I have known quite a few people that have had severe crashes with and without gear (a couple of them race bikes either for a living or at the am level) that still go for street rides without gear. Isn't it possible that some people simply choose a different approach to life all the while completely understanding the possible outcome of the risk that they are taking ? Isn't it possible that some very intelligent people are simply less fear driven/motivated ? Why is it that there seems to be some ridiculous assumption that Gear = Smart and No Gear = Dumb ? Seems a tad arrogant and very narrow in scope. Me? I'm kind of a pussy and don't even like to ride around my neighborhood without at least basic gear.
+1
Been hit twice by cars. Once from behind while waiting to turn left and once by a car running a red light (they had been stopped at the light to let a passenger out and then proceeded through without looking). I was doing 50 and buried my bike in their back seat. Walked away both times.
I sometimes wear a full-face, usually a leather jacket, always jeans, sometimes gloves and often runners. It is my choice, not yours.

It just amazes me how so many people think they are so fricking smart and have the right to tell others what to do... especially in the land of the "free and home of the brave."

Seems to me, based on their pontifipussification, they shouldn't even be on two wheels. After all, isn't a car with airbags, seatbelt and safety frame much safer?

And as to Darwinism taking care of the non-atgatters (stupid by the attgatters definition) who live life as they choose and perhaps take the greatest risks...
History certainly proves otherwise. Christ we wouldn't be riding motorcycles today if the safety preaching nazi's had been in force around the old motorcycle shops in the early 1900's. "Damn beretta! (thread starter) You post about guns you own and you must hate the people who wish to outlaw personal ownership and yet you criticize and wish to push your point of view over on people who enjoy riding a motorcycle. And you ride one too!! Are you fucking retarded!

And oh yeah....
Amazing how this thread once again turned into a Harley bashing fest, by the original poster making sure to explain how he wasn't "bashing or criticizing" at the same time he also criticizing the poor handling of a Harley bagger and how a police officer who could ride one well must be the exception. (just after he stated he had never owned one....)

Some of you folks are so fucking see-through and predictable it makes me want to puke. Talk about Darwinism...

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Old 01-07-2014, 09:13 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red9 View Post
+1
And oh yeah....
Amazing how this thread once again turned into a Harley bashing fest,
Seriously?
If this thread comes across as a "bashing fest", maybe your too sensitive for forums not dedicated to HD.


I often ride at the lower end of the gear spectrum, modular helmet, touring gloves, work boots, wax cotton riding jacket, work pants.
Its because I'm cheap, lazy, and because I'm comfortable with the risk level for what, where, and how I typically ride on a daily basis as a full time rider. I make no excuses, I've been hit by cars twice, and been down a couple of times in minimal gear with only very minor injury. I consider that luck, not something to be counted on.
God protects children and fools.

The arguments from the ATGATT crowd, sound intelligent and logical with a little bit of denial. The arguments from the no gear crowd sound like nonsensical adolescent chest thumping, and mindless bravado.


I've never heard a rider say they wish they had less gear on when they went down................
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:22 AM   #58
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I wish I had kept all of my broken helmets.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:34 AM   #59
MotoTex
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I'm still looking for the posts telling anyone else what to do, or "bashing" Harleys.

I've seen folks relating their personal experiences, but how anyone would take that to the next level and presume that this means they (the reader) is considered stupid or Darwin-bait is beyond me.

I think someone's feelers are just a little sensitive.

Kinda reminds me of members of religious cults who can't embrace that just because others might see things differently doesn't mean someone is forcing them to change their religious belief. Anyone remember the religious cult in the movie Galaxina?
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:40 AM   #60
Ginger Beard
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Originally Posted by dwestly View Post

All this being said, I don't want to be deemed a "safety geek". Wear what you think is appropriate. That's what our freedoms are all about. The inevitable application of Darwinian Theory will eventually take care of the rest.


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